1
00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:03,590
this is Lou Elizondo and you are

2
00:00:09,950 --> 00:00:06,130
listening to that UFO podcast

3
00:00:12,350 --> 00:00:09,960
[Music]

4
00:00:14,450 --> 00:00:12,360
hi everyone and welcome back to that UFO

5
00:00:16,670 --> 00:00:14,460
podcast my name is Andy and I am

6
00:00:18,769 --> 00:00:16,680
delighted to welcome an independent

7
00:00:20,570 --> 00:00:18,779
investigative journalist focused on

8
00:00:22,370 --> 00:00:20,580
bringing credible information about

9
00:00:24,890 --> 00:00:22,380
hidden paranormal and impossible

10
00:00:26,330 --> 00:00:24,900
realities into the mainstream she is the

11
00:00:28,009 --> 00:00:26,340
author of The award-winning book

12
00:00:30,170 --> 00:00:28,019
surviving death a journalist

13
00:00:32,510 --> 00:00:30,180
investigates evidence for an afterlife

14
00:00:35,330 --> 00:00:32,520
which was also turned into a six-part

15
00:00:37,370 --> 00:00:35,340
Netflix series and the book UFOs

16
00:00:40,190 --> 00:00:37,380
generals pilots and government officials

17
00:00:42,290 --> 00:00:40,200
go on the record she's also a speaker at

18
00:00:44,150 --> 00:00:42,300
the upcoming and inquiry into anomalous

19
00:00:46,069 --> 00:00:44,160
experiences and the phenomenon

20
00:00:48,709 --> 00:00:46,079
conference being hosted in New York City

21
00:00:51,049 --> 00:00:48,719
more to come on that later without any

22
00:00:53,930 --> 00:00:51,059
further delay or introduction allow me

23
00:00:56,930 --> 00:00:53,940
to welcome Leslie Kane to the podcast

24
00:00:58,369 --> 00:00:56,940
hi Andy so good to be with you good to

25
00:00:59,869 --> 00:00:58,379
have you and I'm glad I got through that

26
00:01:02,209 --> 00:00:59,879
that's why I asked for 90 minutes just

27
00:01:03,349 --> 00:01:02,219
to get through that introduction so you

28
00:01:05,390 --> 00:01:03,359
know what I don't know if you heard me

29
00:01:07,190 --> 00:01:05,400
laugh but when you said the surviving

30
00:01:09,670 --> 00:01:07,200
death it sounded like you said turned

31
00:01:12,469 --> 00:01:09,680
into a sex pot

32
00:01:16,250 --> 00:01:12,479
that's what I heard because you said six

33
00:01:17,390 --> 00:01:16,260
part but it said you like sex pot I

34
00:01:18,890 --> 00:01:17,400
don't know why it's gonna probably got

35
00:01:20,749 --> 00:01:18,900
to do with your accent so that's why I

36
00:01:22,490 --> 00:01:20,759
left I hope I didn't interrupt but I

37
00:01:24,230 --> 00:01:22,500
couldn't no people people will love that

38
00:01:26,149 --> 00:01:24,240
the accent's a regular topic of

39
00:01:27,410 --> 00:01:26,159
conversation on the podcast and we were

40
00:01:28,190 --> 00:01:27,420
just talking about that before we hit

41
00:01:30,050 --> 00:01:28,200
record

42
00:01:31,910 --> 00:01:30,060
um it might be a sex pot for some people

43
00:01:33,950 --> 00:01:31,920
maybe that's their thing you know but

44
00:01:36,170 --> 00:01:33,960
hey Netflix has got all kinds on there

45
00:01:38,390 --> 00:01:36,180
for all kinds so listen let's get

46
00:01:41,090 --> 00:01:38,400
straight into it Leslie uh first off I

47
00:01:43,310 --> 00:01:41,100
like to ask my guests how they first got

48
00:01:45,469 --> 00:01:43,320
involved or had an interest in the UFO

49
00:01:47,510 --> 00:01:45,479
subject how far back does your your

50
00:01:51,050 --> 00:01:47,520
interest in UFOs go

51
00:01:52,730 --> 00:01:51,060
it goes back to 1999 actually

52
00:01:54,889 --> 00:01:52,740
um and that it all started when I was

53
00:01:56,870 --> 00:01:54,899
working at a public radio station in

54
00:01:58,249 --> 00:01:56,880
California on the west coast of the

55
00:02:00,289 --> 00:01:58,259
United States

56
00:02:02,149 --> 00:02:00,299
um and I was working as a producer and a

57
00:02:05,030 --> 00:02:02,159
host of a daily investigative news

58
00:02:08,330 --> 00:02:05,040
program and a colleague from France sent

59
00:02:10,490 --> 00:02:08,340
me in the mail this 90-page study called

60
00:02:12,589 --> 00:02:10,500
the cometa report which probably a lot

61
00:02:15,470 --> 00:02:12,599
of your listeners are familiar with

62
00:02:18,050 --> 00:02:15,480
but um it was it was 90 pages of

63
00:02:19,790 --> 00:02:18,060
analysis of official UFO cases you know

64
00:02:22,250 --> 00:02:19,800
really good cases with a lot of data

65
00:02:25,490 --> 00:02:22,260
pilots and mainly pilot cases military

66
00:02:27,229 --> 00:02:25,500
cases and this very distinguished group

67
00:02:30,050 --> 00:02:27,239
wrote it which included generals and

68
00:02:32,690 --> 00:02:30,060
Admirals and police of chief chief

69
00:02:34,010 --> 00:02:32,700
police and former space experts and a

70
00:02:36,050 --> 00:02:34,020
lot they were all retired and they were

71
00:02:38,510 --> 00:02:36,060
part of a think tank in France

72
00:02:40,550 --> 00:02:38,520
and anyway they they analyzed all these

73
00:02:42,830 --> 00:02:40,560
cases and what really struck me as a

74
00:02:44,990 --> 00:02:42,840
reporter was they drew the conclusion

75
00:02:47,150 --> 00:02:45,000
that the best explanation for what they

76
00:02:49,610 --> 00:02:47,160
for the cases they studied was the

77
00:02:52,070 --> 00:02:49,620
Extraterrestrial hypothesis and they

78
00:02:54,229 --> 00:02:52,080
kind of it was just written right out in

79
00:02:55,910 --> 00:02:54,239
black and white very methodically you

80
00:02:58,009 --> 00:02:55,920
know well this is kind of the only this

81
00:02:59,210 --> 00:02:58,019
is the our best conclusion we can't

82
00:03:00,290 --> 00:02:59,220
prove it

83
00:03:02,330 --> 00:03:00,300
but

84
00:03:06,050 --> 00:03:02,340
um it seems the most likely explanation

85
00:03:08,750 --> 00:03:06,060
and I just thought you know if even one

86
00:03:11,869 --> 00:03:08,760
of these cases was that it would be a

87
00:03:14,149 --> 00:03:11,879
major story so I was very struck by this

88
00:03:16,190 --> 00:03:14,159
report it was like 90 pages and very

89
00:03:20,089 --> 00:03:16,200
authoritative and because of who the

90
00:03:21,710 --> 00:03:20,099
authors were you know I I knew that I

91
00:03:23,449 --> 00:03:21,720
could maybe do something with this as a

92
00:03:26,809 --> 00:03:23,459
reporter because of this just you know

93
00:03:28,309 --> 00:03:26,819
who the authors were and so

94
00:03:30,949 --> 00:03:28,319
um that's how I first got into it what I

95
00:03:33,229 --> 00:03:30,959
did with that report was I ended up

96
00:03:35,149 --> 00:03:33,239
pitching a story to the Boston Globe

97
00:03:37,190 --> 00:03:35,159
which is a major paper in Boston

98
00:03:38,390 --> 00:03:37,200
Massachusetts it's actually owned by the

99
00:03:41,210 --> 00:03:38,400
New York Times

100
00:03:43,550 --> 00:03:41,220
and um it's because I had written

101
00:03:45,710 --> 00:03:43,560
stories for the Boston Globe prior to

102
00:03:47,449 --> 00:03:45,720
this and so I knew the editor of the

103
00:03:48,949 --> 00:03:47,459
Sunday section quite well and she really

104
00:03:51,890 --> 00:03:48,959
liked my work of course I'd written

105
00:03:54,830 --> 00:03:51,900
about other topics not about UFOs

106
00:03:56,869 --> 00:03:54,840
and so she was willing to take this on

107
00:03:59,930 --> 00:03:56,879
but it was such a different world than

108
00:04:01,970 --> 00:03:59,940
Andy I mean it was so hard to get that

109
00:04:04,610 --> 00:04:01,980
story in the Boston Globe and a lot of

110
00:04:06,530 --> 00:04:04,620
the editors I went to at other papers

111
00:04:08,869 --> 00:04:06,540
who I who knew me because I was a

112
00:04:10,789 --> 00:04:08,879
freelance writer then so I in those days

113
00:04:12,350 --> 00:04:10,799
you could just sort of submit stories to

114
00:04:13,070 --> 00:04:12,360
a lot of newspapers it wasn't like it is

115
00:04:16,370 --> 00:04:13,080
today

116
00:04:18,469 --> 00:04:16,380
and um they all like me but most of them

117
00:04:20,930 --> 00:04:18,479
wouldn't touch this and I would even try

118
00:04:23,330 --> 00:04:20,940
to not say the word UFO when I pitch the

119
00:04:25,189 --> 00:04:23,340
story to them on the phone you know

120
00:04:27,770 --> 00:04:25,199
it was just like there were the stigma

121
00:04:30,710 --> 00:04:27,780
was so intense and this this

122
00:04:33,530 --> 00:04:30,720
um editor for the Sunday Globe uh Sunday

123
00:04:35,150 --> 00:04:33,540
review section you know it was really at

124
00:04:37,670 --> 00:04:35,160
one point she just she said we're not

125
00:04:38,870 --> 00:04:37,680
doing it you know she and then I went

126
00:04:40,610 --> 00:04:38,880
back to her and I said well look why

127
00:04:43,550 --> 00:04:40,620
don't we change this and let's change

128
00:04:45,230 --> 00:04:43,560
this and it was heavily edited you know

129
00:04:47,210 --> 00:04:45,240
all of that but she finally came out

130
00:04:49,730 --> 00:04:47,220
with that story and it was a long piece

131
00:04:51,710 --> 00:04:49,740
it was like more than half of a full

132
00:04:53,810 --> 00:04:51,720
page on the in you know on the in the

133
00:04:55,430 --> 00:04:53,820
section so

134
00:04:57,290 --> 00:04:55,440
um and it wasn't just about that report

135
00:04:59,570 --> 00:04:57,300
but I also did some research into

136
00:05:02,210 --> 00:04:59,580
American National Security issues and

137
00:05:04,129 --> 00:05:02,220
stuff like that around UFOs so that's

138
00:05:06,830 --> 00:05:04,139
what really got me started I mean the

139
00:05:10,730 --> 00:05:06,840
response to that story from the UFO

140
00:05:12,770 --> 00:05:10,740
Community was just so ecstatic because I

141
00:05:14,930 --> 00:05:12,780
you know not no one in the mainstream

142
00:05:17,689 --> 00:05:14,940
writes about this in mainstream

143
00:05:19,909 --> 00:05:17,699
newspapers no one had at that time I

144
00:05:21,409 --> 00:05:19,919
mean there were some reporters doing it

145
00:05:23,390 --> 00:05:21,419
doing more good work in their local

146
00:05:25,909 --> 00:05:23,400
areas like of course Georgia Knapp had

147
00:05:27,890 --> 00:05:25,919
been doing this forever but he was based

148
00:05:29,330 --> 00:05:27,900
in Los Angeles and Las Vegas I mean you

149
00:05:30,950 --> 00:05:29,340
know and he worked for the TV network

150
00:05:33,290 --> 00:05:30,960
there and did great work but this was

151
00:05:34,909 --> 00:05:33,300
like a a mainstream newspaper and the

152
00:05:36,409 --> 00:05:34,919
story went out on the wires so it was

153
00:05:38,810 --> 00:05:36,419
picked up in other papers across the

154
00:05:40,790 --> 00:05:38,820
country so anyway everybody in the UFO

155
00:05:42,890 --> 00:05:40,800
Community was very happy about it and

156
00:05:45,110 --> 00:05:42,900
that was there was no turning back for

157
00:05:47,570 --> 00:05:45,120
me at that point I was so you know

158
00:05:50,270 --> 00:05:47,580
inspired to learn more about this topic

159
00:05:52,370 --> 00:05:50,280
and I was kind of amazed at how strong

160
00:05:55,010 --> 00:05:52,380
the taboo was and I wanted to kind of

161
00:05:56,810 --> 00:05:55,020
understand what that was about and so I

162
00:05:59,090 --> 00:05:56,820
basically ended up eventually leaving

163
00:06:00,890 --> 00:05:59,100
the radio station and just devoting

164
00:06:02,990 --> 00:06:00,900
myself to this full time but so it's

165
00:06:06,170 --> 00:06:03,000
been it's that my first story came out

166
00:06:07,670 --> 00:06:06,180
in May of 2000 so it's been 22 years

167
00:06:09,409 --> 00:06:07,680
really since I've been writing and

168
00:06:11,629 --> 00:06:09,419
Publishing on UFOs

169
00:06:13,790 --> 00:06:11,639
it sounds to me like you had to have a

170
00:06:16,129 --> 00:06:13,800
lot of credit in the bank just to get

171
00:06:18,830 --> 00:06:16,139
the editor to to get that story

172
00:06:20,810 --> 00:06:18,840
published eventually and I wonder was it

173
00:06:22,730 --> 00:06:20,820
the case they tried to almost convince

174
00:06:25,189 --> 00:06:22,740
you out of putting that sort of subject

175
00:06:27,590 --> 00:06:25,199
out there with a stigma and taboo and

176
00:06:30,170 --> 00:06:27,600
and given that that positive reaction

177
00:06:32,390 --> 00:06:30,180
was there no appetite for a follow-up

178
00:06:34,010 --> 00:06:32,400
from the Boston Globe for example to say

179
00:06:35,590 --> 00:06:34,020
look we got a great reaction from this

180
00:06:38,629 --> 00:06:35,600
let's do more

181
00:06:40,309 --> 00:06:38,639
well um so the first question was um

182
00:06:42,650 --> 00:06:40,319
were they trying to get me not to do it

183
00:06:44,570 --> 00:06:42,660
I mean all they could do is just say no

184
00:06:46,550 --> 00:06:44,580
we don't want your story there's you

185
00:06:48,170 --> 00:06:46,560
know and everybody else except the globe

186
00:06:49,670 --> 00:06:48,180
did that because I I called a bunch of

187
00:06:52,309 --> 00:06:49,680
people

188
00:06:54,830 --> 00:06:52,319
um and she didn't you know she was just

189
00:06:56,870 --> 00:06:54,840
very nervous you know because it was

190
00:07:01,189 --> 00:06:56,880
considered like a tabloid subject then

191
00:07:03,830 --> 00:07:01,199
you know so a follow-up I did I my next

192
00:07:05,990 --> 00:07:03,840
story was I came out a year later and it

193
00:07:08,210 --> 00:07:06,000
was about pilot cases that affected

194
00:07:10,550 --> 00:07:08,220
Aviation safety and I did go back to the

195
00:07:13,010 --> 00:07:10,560
Boston Globe at that point but it turns

196
00:07:15,529 --> 00:07:13,020
out that editor had left the paper

197
00:07:17,990 --> 00:07:15,539
so between my first and second story she

198
00:07:19,790 --> 00:07:18,000
had left the paper so unfortunately the

199
00:07:21,350 --> 00:07:19,800
edit the people there the woman who was

200
00:07:23,749 --> 00:07:21,360
there I forget her replaced her but they

201
00:07:26,570 --> 00:07:23,759
weren't interested in this unfortunately

202
00:07:28,189 --> 00:07:26,580
I wish she hadn't left but I but the

203
00:07:30,170 --> 00:07:28,199
second story went into the province

204
00:07:32,749 --> 00:07:30,180
Providence Journal which is Providence

205
00:07:34,790 --> 00:07:32,759
Rhode Island it's a very small state but

206
00:07:36,529 --> 00:07:34,800
that this story went all over the place

207
00:07:39,409 --> 00:07:36,539
on the wires I mean it got a lot more

208
00:07:40,969 --> 00:07:39,419
play than the first one did and it was

209
00:07:43,010 --> 00:07:40,979
about

210
00:07:45,050 --> 00:07:43,020
um a a report that had come out of the

211
00:07:46,969 --> 00:07:45,060
organization called narcap which studies

212
00:07:48,110 --> 00:07:46,979
Aviation safety cases written by Richard

213
00:07:51,529 --> 00:07:48,120
Haynes

214
00:07:53,570 --> 00:07:51,539
a former NASA senior scientist and all

215
00:07:56,629 --> 00:07:53,580
about these cases that impacted Aviation

216
00:07:59,510 --> 00:07:56,639
safety so I jumped off of that report

217
00:08:01,249 --> 00:07:59,520
and did some research into cases

218
00:08:03,230 --> 00:08:01,259
that you know that affected Aviation

219
00:08:04,909 --> 00:08:03,240
safety both for commercial pilots and

220
00:08:07,909 --> 00:08:04,919
Military pilots and I thought you know

221
00:08:10,969 --> 00:08:07,919
this is a this is a reason that the

222
00:08:13,430 --> 00:08:10,979
status quo can care about this you know

223
00:08:15,189 --> 00:08:13,440
it's not it's like there's a reason to

224
00:08:18,170 --> 00:08:15,199
be concerned because this affects

225
00:08:19,249 --> 00:08:18,180
Aviation safety and is a good hook in

226
00:08:22,010 --> 00:08:19,259
that way

227
00:08:24,170 --> 00:08:22,020
so at what point did you start putting

228
00:08:26,510 --> 00:08:24,180
together the idea for the book and for

229
00:08:28,189 --> 00:08:26,520
2010 obviously that's UFOs generous

230
00:08:29,930 --> 00:08:28,199
pilots and government officials go on

231
00:08:31,909 --> 00:08:29,940
the record which already sounds a lot

232
00:08:33,649 --> 00:08:31,919
like the report you mentioned it got

233
00:08:35,570 --> 00:08:33,659
your initial interest was that what the

234
00:08:37,070 --> 00:08:35,580
idea for the book was seeded or did that

235
00:08:38,870 --> 00:08:37,080
come later

236
00:08:41,690 --> 00:08:38,880
um now which report did you mean oh the

237
00:08:44,690 --> 00:08:41,700
camera report yes yeah no well the title

238
00:08:46,130 --> 00:08:44,700
of that was UFOs and defense what are we

239
00:08:48,530 --> 00:08:46,140
prepared for

240
00:08:50,449 --> 00:08:48,540
it was very much focused on National

241
00:08:53,030 --> 00:08:50,459
Security concerns that that initial

242
00:08:54,829 --> 00:08:53,040
report from France it was very much like

243
00:08:56,150 --> 00:08:54,839
these things are out there so what are

244
00:08:57,590 --> 00:08:56,160
we going to do about we've got to inform

245
00:08:59,269 --> 00:08:57,600
our Pilots you know we've got to take

246
00:09:01,070 --> 00:08:59,279
them seriously

247
00:09:02,930 --> 00:09:01,080
um so that but so my St that second

248
00:09:04,790 --> 00:09:02,940
story was really it was quite different

249
00:09:06,590 --> 00:09:04,800
so anyway my book my book title was

250
00:09:10,490 --> 00:09:06,600
quite different but the way I got to the

251
00:09:12,350 --> 00:09:10,500
book was I kept reporting on UFOs

252
00:09:14,509 --> 00:09:12,360
the book came out 10 years after I

253
00:09:17,150 --> 00:09:14,519
started so during those 10 years I did a

254
00:09:19,310 --> 00:09:17,160
whole series of Articles

255
00:09:21,829 --> 00:09:19,320
um I did press conferences I filed a

256
00:09:23,449 --> 00:09:21,839
lawsuit against NASA which was

257
00:09:26,090 --> 00:09:23,459
successful it took years and years and

258
00:09:27,530 --> 00:09:26,100
years about one other case

259
00:09:28,910 --> 00:09:27,540
um and I also started working with John

260
00:09:30,410 --> 00:09:28,920
podesta I mean it didn't really work

261
00:09:32,990 --> 00:09:30,420
with him but he was he was an

262
00:09:35,329 --> 00:09:33,000
influential part of the administration

263
00:09:38,990 --> 00:09:35,339
who was very supportive of my work

264
00:09:41,030 --> 00:09:39,000
and um you know just dug into a lot of

265
00:09:42,949 --> 00:09:41,040
cases got to know people kept reporting

266
00:09:44,810 --> 00:09:42,959
and then in 2007

267
00:09:47,210 --> 00:09:44,820
um I teamed up with James Fox the

268
00:09:48,829 --> 00:09:47,220
filmmaker who now has the movie out

269
00:09:50,630 --> 00:09:48,839
called moment of contact which is

270
00:09:52,910 --> 00:09:50,640
amazing

271
00:09:55,730 --> 00:09:52,920
um and we organized a press conference

272
00:09:58,190 --> 00:09:55,740
in Washington in 2007 in which we

273
00:09:59,990 --> 00:09:58,200
invited about I don't know maybe 13

274
00:10:02,810 --> 00:10:00,000
something like that

275
00:10:05,329 --> 00:10:02,820
um people from all over the world uh to

276
00:10:07,009 --> 00:10:05,339
come and testify at this or you know

277
00:10:09,110 --> 00:10:07,019
give statements at this press conference

278
00:10:12,350 --> 00:10:09,120
in Washington and

279
00:10:13,730 --> 00:10:12,360
um they were from many countries I

280
00:10:16,070 --> 00:10:13,740
forget how many maybe eight different

281
00:10:17,930 --> 00:10:16,080
countries or something like that and a

282
00:10:19,250 --> 00:10:17,940
lot of them were military pilots and

283
00:10:21,350 --> 00:10:19,260
investigators that have worked for

284
00:10:24,769 --> 00:10:21,360
governments and you know people that had

285
00:10:27,110 --> 00:10:24,779
experienced this directly but and so it

286
00:10:28,850 --> 00:10:27,120
was at that press conference I was so

287
00:10:31,310 --> 00:10:28,860
impressed with these people and I got to

288
00:10:33,590 --> 00:10:31,320
meet a lot of these uh people from other

289
00:10:35,269 --> 00:10:33,600
countries who only got to give

290
00:10:36,889 --> 00:10:35,279
statements for five minutes at this

291
00:10:39,350 --> 00:10:36,899
press conference and I thought you know

292
00:10:40,910 --> 00:10:39,360
they have so much more to offer than a

293
00:10:43,250 --> 00:10:40,920
five-minute statement

294
00:10:45,650 --> 00:10:43,260
so I thought it would be really great to

295
00:10:49,069 --> 00:10:45,660
do a book in which I could invite them

296
00:10:50,990 --> 00:10:49,079
to contribute basically so then I

297
00:10:53,509 --> 00:10:51,000
started working on the book and it

298
00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:53,519
really it involved chapters actually

299
00:10:57,710 --> 00:10:55,920
written by these people I mean I'd say

300
00:11:00,170 --> 00:10:57,720
about half the book is written by other

301
00:11:02,030 --> 00:11:00,180
people not by me so I thought you know

302
00:11:04,610 --> 00:11:02,040
rather than have the Iranian General

303
00:11:06,710 --> 00:11:04,620
parvis Jafari right rather than me

304
00:11:09,530 --> 00:11:06,720
interview him about what was it like to

305
00:11:11,630 --> 00:11:09,540
try and shoot down this UFO over Iran

306
00:11:13,790 --> 00:11:11,640
I had him just tell the whole story in

307
00:11:15,530 --> 00:11:13,800
his own words as you know so you get to

308
00:11:16,490 --> 00:11:15,540
hear directly from them in a whole

309
00:11:19,069 --> 00:11:16,500
chapter

310
00:11:21,650 --> 00:11:19,079
and and I I worked with them all in

311
00:11:24,350 --> 00:11:21,660
various ways depending on their needs

312
00:11:26,329 --> 00:11:24,360
for my you know assistance and stuff but

313
00:11:27,889 --> 00:11:26,339
yeah so then I thought that's what

314
00:11:29,750 --> 00:11:27,899
really inspired the book I think that

315
00:11:31,190 --> 00:11:29,760
was your question and then I I really

316
00:11:34,130 --> 00:11:31,200
think one of the reasons it was so

317
00:11:36,470 --> 00:11:34,140
successful was because of the power of

318
00:11:38,030 --> 00:11:36,480
those chapters written by these

319
00:11:39,470 --> 00:11:38,040
incredibly high level highly

320
00:11:41,030 --> 00:11:39,480
credentialed people that I don't think

321
00:11:42,829 --> 00:11:41,040
anybody is really going to question them

322
00:11:44,870 --> 00:11:42,839
you know there's also the former

323
00:11:46,490 --> 00:11:44,880
governor of Arizona wrote it wrote him

324
00:11:49,430 --> 00:11:46,500
something from my book about the Phoenix

325
00:11:51,110 --> 00:11:49,440
Lights case and also John podesta wrote

326
00:11:54,050 --> 00:11:51,120
the forward to the book

327
00:11:56,750 --> 00:11:54,060
and so like what was what you know so

328
00:11:58,910 --> 00:11:56,760
anyway it was um yeah it was really

329
00:12:00,769 --> 00:11:58,920
really a powerful moment and I think I

330
00:12:03,410 --> 00:12:00,779
think that even though I'd worked 10

331
00:12:06,829 --> 00:12:03,420
years in the media to try to crack the

332
00:12:08,990 --> 00:12:06,839
taboo I think it really wasn't that

333
00:12:10,130 --> 00:12:09,000
successful until the book came out then

334
00:12:12,710 --> 00:12:10,140
there was a little bit of a crack

335
00:12:15,949 --> 00:12:12,720
because it got a lot of attention

336
00:12:18,769 --> 00:12:15,959
um so but nothing like 2017 I said

337
00:12:22,430 --> 00:12:18,779
they're sort of pre-2017 and post you

338
00:12:25,310 --> 00:12:22,440
know so of all the things I did pre-2017

339
00:12:27,949 --> 00:12:25,320
I would say my book was the thing that

340
00:12:29,210 --> 00:12:27,959
made the most impact and you know had

341
00:12:31,430 --> 00:12:29,220
the most

342
00:12:33,590 --> 00:12:31,440
if anything changed that book did it

343
00:12:35,569 --> 00:12:33,600
more than anything else yeah and we're

344
00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:35,579
certainly going to get to 2017 but I

345
00:12:40,910 --> 00:12:37,620
just want to ask was there any part of

346
00:12:42,710 --> 00:12:40,920
you in 2010 writing that book putting it

347
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:42,720
together putting it out saying the

348
00:12:46,910 --> 00:12:44,399
reaction that you could have foreseen

349
00:12:49,910 --> 00:12:46,920
the landscape changing to what it would

350
00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:49,920
become post 2017

351
00:12:53,389 --> 00:12:51,839
. that's a great question I mean I

352
00:12:56,990 --> 00:12:53,399
certainly was

353
00:12:59,210 --> 00:12:57,000
hoping and asking for it to change I I

354
00:13:01,190 --> 00:12:59,220
don't know I don't remember if I ever

355
00:13:02,990 --> 00:13:01,200
thought it I really didn't know if it

356
00:13:05,569 --> 00:13:03,000
ever would I thought probably thought it

357
00:13:07,790 --> 00:13:05,579
was less likely than likely but what's

358
00:13:10,250 --> 00:13:07,800
interesting is I I made you know the my

359
00:13:13,430 --> 00:13:10,260
book back then it was so basic and now

360
00:13:15,170 --> 00:13:13,440
now it just seems primitive you know I

361
00:13:17,810 --> 00:13:15,180
was just really making the point number

362
00:13:20,329 --> 00:13:17,820
one that UFOs are physically real right

363
00:13:23,150 --> 00:13:20,339
that they're real objects and number two

364
00:13:25,190 --> 00:13:23,160
that they need to be investigated by the

365
00:13:27,110 --> 00:13:25,200
scientific community and number three

366
00:13:28,610 --> 00:13:27,120
they need to invest investigated by the

367
00:13:31,449 --> 00:13:28,620
US government because they impact

368
00:13:35,269 --> 00:13:31,459
National Security and Aviation safety

369
00:13:37,550 --> 00:13:35,279
and all three of those things have there

370
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:37,560
might have been one more point I made I

371
00:13:41,509 --> 00:13:39,839
don't remember but the things I was

372
00:13:42,889 --> 00:13:41,519
advocating oh and so I you know

373
00:13:44,930 --> 00:13:42,899
basically I was saying there needs to be

374
00:13:48,350 --> 00:13:44,940
a government agency set up to do this

375
00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:48,360
right and I was sort of advocating for

376
00:13:52,490 --> 00:13:49,920
that throughout the book and so were

377
00:13:56,150 --> 00:13:52,500
some of my writers and then it's turned

378
00:13:58,430 --> 00:13:56,160
out now you know so this was like you

379
00:14:00,050 --> 00:13:58,440
know 12 years later or even earlier that

380
00:14:01,490 --> 00:14:00,060
everything I asked for in that book has

381
00:14:03,710 --> 00:14:01,500
come to pass

382
00:14:04,850 --> 00:14:03,720
that's what's so amazing to me that you

383
00:14:06,410 --> 00:14:04,860
know the government has acknowledged

384
00:14:08,150 --> 00:14:06,420
that UFOs are real they are physical

385
00:14:09,889 --> 00:14:08,160
objects been acknowledged many times

386
00:14:12,050 --> 00:14:09,899
over and that they've they there is an

387
00:14:14,509 --> 00:14:12,060
agency which we discovered and they've

388
00:14:15,949 --> 00:14:14,519
Now set up another task force and you

389
00:14:17,629 --> 00:14:15,959
know the scientists are just coming on

390
00:14:19,129 --> 00:14:17,639
board to study it and government

391
00:14:20,990 --> 00:14:19,139
officials are studying it and the

392
00:14:24,350 --> 00:14:21,000
Congress is into it and everything

393
00:14:26,810 --> 00:14:24,360
so I really it's everything I hope for

394
00:14:28,730 --> 00:14:26,820
in writing the book has come to pass but

395
00:14:31,310 --> 00:14:28,740
whether I thought it actually would or

396
00:14:33,410 --> 00:14:31,320
not I I probably really didn't

397
00:14:35,329 --> 00:14:33,420
necessarily expect it would you know

398
00:14:37,610 --> 00:14:35,339
there was nothing to indicate at the

399
00:14:40,189 --> 00:14:37,620
time that there was any interest and the

400
00:14:42,769 --> 00:14:40,199
irony is that 2007 when we gave this

401
00:14:44,509 --> 00:14:42,779
press conference that led to my book was

402
00:14:47,629 --> 00:14:44,519
the same year that the program the

403
00:14:49,610 --> 00:14:47,639
precursor program to atip was was being

404
00:14:50,389 --> 00:14:49,620
set up at the DIA of course totally in

405
00:14:53,090 --> 00:14:50,399
secret

406
00:14:55,850 --> 00:14:53,100
yeah and just before again we get to

407
00:14:58,970 --> 00:14:55,860
2017 I wonder would you have any plans

408
00:15:00,710 --> 00:14:58,980
to release a second edition or sequel to

409
00:15:02,930 --> 00:15:00,720
that initial book given I'm sure your

410
00:15:05,689 --> 00:15:02,940
contacts book and sources have increased

411
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:05,699
several fold since then

412
00:15:12,050 --> 00:15:09,360
I don't have such a plan uh I just don't

413
00:15:13,970 --> 00:15:12,060
I mean the book sort of stands as a as a

414
00:15:15,590 --> 00:15:13,980
book and I think people still benefit

415
00:15:16,910 --> 00:15:15,600
from it now who don't know much about

416
00:15:18,290 --> 00:15:16,920
the topic but

417
00:15:20,269 --> 00:15:18,300
I think

418
00:15:21,530 --> 00:15:20,279
um if I ever wrote another book it'd

419
00:15:23,810 --> 00:15:21,540
probably be a completely different book

420
00:15:25,910 --> 00:15:23,820
you know but I I don't have any plans at

421
00:15:28,490 --> 00:15:25,920
this moment to write another book

422
00:15:32,210 --> 00:15:28,500
well your next your next like you say

423
00:15:34,610 --> 00:15:32,220
Milestone 2017 you wrote an article with

424
00:15:36,829 --> 00:15:34,620
Ralph Blumenthal and Italian Cooper who

425
00:15:38,210 --> 00:15:36,839
Helene often gets left off of the the

426
00:15:39,949 --> 00:15:38,220
acknowledgments by people I think

427
00:15:40,990 --> 00:15:39,959
because she's never really came out in a

428
00:15:43,310 --> 00:15:41,000
public way

429
00:15:44,689 --> 00:15:43,320
I suppose yourself and Ralph have put

430
00:15:46,430 --> 00:15:44,699
yourself out there a little bit more for

431
00:15:48,590 --> 00:15:46,440
people like myself to speak to which is

432
00:15:50,329 --> 00:15:48,600
appreciated but I could understand why

433
00:15:51,769 --> 00:15:50,339
anyone wouldn't do that given the

434
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:51,779
landscape and some of the the

435
00:15:55,910 --> 00:15:54,000
conversations that go on but that that

436
00:15:57,530 --> 00:15:55,920
article truly changed the UFO

437
00:16:00,050 --> 00:15:57,540
conversation that that's not an

438
00:16:02,750 --> 00:16:00,060
exaggeration did you think at the time

439
00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:02,760
writing that article either individually

440
00:16:07,069 --> 00:16:04,320
or as a trio

441
00:16:10,129 --> 00:16:07,079
that this is going to have a huge impact

442
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:10,139
and and what was the expectation

443
00:16:14,269 --> 00:16:12,480
I mean I thought it would have a huge

444
00:16:17,210 --> 00:16:14,279
impact I don't think I don't know if

445
00:16:20,509 --> 00:16:17,220
Helene Helene knew

446
00:16:22,790 --> 00:16:20,519
about how how intense she didn't

447
00:16:24,170 --> 00:16:22,800
necessarily she was surprised by the

448
00:16:25,790 --> 00:16:24,180
intensity of the response let's put it

449
00:16:27,290 --> 00:16:25,800
that way she she knew it was an

450
00:16:29,750 --> 00:16:27,300
interesting story and she wanted to do

451
00:16:32,030 --> 00:16:29,760
it you know she's the one that really

452
00:16:34,129 --> 00:16:32,040
made it possible for us to do it it's

453
00:16:35,650 --> 00:16:34,139
the irony of the fact that you know that

454
00:16:39,590 --> 00:16:35,660
she was sort of in the background

455
00:16:42,050 --> 00:16:39,600
because she's not like into UFOs right

456
00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:42,060
she's just a pentagon correspondent for

457
00:16:45,230 --> 00:16:43,860
the New York Times who got who worked on

458
00:16:47,150 --> 00:16:45,240
this one story and then she went about

459
00:16:48,829 --> 00:16:47,160
her business doing covering everything

460
00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:48,839
else that she normally covers I mean

461
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,480
she's an outstanding reporter who's on

462
00:16:57,050 --> 00:16:53,279
the front page of the times all the time

463
00:16:59,749 --> 00:16:57,060
covering you know Ukraine and Iraq and

464
00:17:02,269 --> 00:16:59,759
Iran and all kinds of issues

465
00:17:04,189 --> 00:17:02,279
um and you know things at the Pentagon

466
00:17:05,329 --> 00:17:04,199
um she's just an amazing reporter so it

467
00:17:07,309 --> 00:17:05,339
was kind of different for her because

468
00:17:09,169 --> 00:17:07,319
Ralph and I both had this history with

469
00:17:11,270 --> 00:17:09,179
the topic and she hadn't had that

470
00:17:12,590 --> 00:17:11,280
history she didn't really know what to

471
00:17:15,650 --> 00:17:12,600
expect but

472
00:17:18,350 --> 00:17:15,660
I am I really thought it was going to be

473
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:18,360
a big deal I really did

474
00:17:23,090 --> 00:17:20,160
um just knowing having been involved for

475
00:17:25,010 --> 00:17:23,100
so long and seeing what a leap this was

476
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:25,020
and having Lou Elizondo on the record

477
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:26,880
and having Harry Reid on the record you

478
00:17:30,830 --> 00:17:29,280
know made all the difference I just want

479
00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:30,840
to say to everybody since you brought up

480
00:17:33,770 --> 00:17:32,220
Helene Cooper

481
00:17:36,590 --> 00:17:33,780
there's going to be a little special

482
00:17:39,950 --> 00:17:36,600
something at the conference on December

483
00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:39,960
3rd which we can talk about later but to

484
00:17:43,730 --> 00:17:41,520
it's going to be a special something

485
00:17:45,289 --> 00:17:43,740
that I'm going to offer as a tribute to

486
00:17:46,850 --> 00:17:45,299
Helene Cooper and everybody's going to

487
00:17:49,430 --> 00:17:46,860
really enjoy it so I just want to plug

488
00:17:52,549 --> 00:17:49,440
her at that moment but anyway yeah I

489
00:17:55,310 --> 00:17:52,559
mean so I I knew it would be a big deal

490
00:17:57,110 --> 00:17:55,320
but I guess none of us knew how big a

491
00:17:58,070 --> 00:17:57,120
deal it would be really I mean it was

492
00:18:00,409 --> 00:17:58,080
just

493
00:18:01,430 --> 00:18:00,419
stunning what happened after that story

494
00:18:04,430 --> 00:18:01,440
came out

495
00:18:06,710 --> 00:18:04,440
the article I mean I got back into the

496
00:18:09,110 --> 00:18:06,720
UFO Topic in a big way after that came

497
00:18:11,090 --> 00:18:09,120
out um years before I had any stupid

498
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:11,100
ideas like starting a podcast on the

499
00:18:15,950 --> 00:18:14,400
subject and I think many people were

500
00:18:17,810 --> 00:18:15,960
affected by it they either had an

501
00:18:19,909 --> 00:18:17,820
introduction or a reintroduction back

502
00:18:21,310 --> 00:18:19,919
into the world of UFOs

503
00:18:24,110 --> 00:18:21,320
and I wonder

504
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:24,120
Gavin your knowledge of the community

505
00:18:28,909 --> 00:18:26,640
and the reactions from your book and

506
00:18:31,010 --> 00:18:28,919
such were there any frustrations that

507
00:18:32,510 --> 00:18:31,020
came up that were unexpected was there

508
00:18:35,750 --> 00:18:32,520
anything that came off the back of it

509
00:18:38,270 --> 00:18:35,760
that would that disappointed you

510
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:38,280
um you mean with regards to the to the

511
00:18:42,049 --> 00:18:39,840
New York Times story or yeah the

512
00:18:43,490 --> 00:18:42,059
December 2017 article yeah was there

513
00:18:46,789 --> 00:18:43,500
anything off the back of it that you

514
00:18:48,710 --> 00:18:46,799
didn't expect in a negative way

515
00:18:51,049 --> 00:18:48,720
um well I think there was a little

516
00:18:52,970 --> 00:18:51,059
confusion about you know whether we

517
00:18:55,010 --> 00:18:52,980
should have mentioned the the OSAP

518
00:18:56,750 --> 00:18:55,020
program I mean there was some pushback

519
00:18:59,690 --> 00:18:56,760
about that and there were a whole lot of

520
00:19:01,970 --> 00:18:59,700
reasons why we didn't but no I would I

521
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:01,980
mean I I mean it's always the the

522
00:19:05,270 --> 00:19:03,360
bunkers that come out of the woodwork

523
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:05,280
and take the videos I mean a lot of what

524
00:19:08,169 --> 00:19:07,200
made that story so popular was those

525
00:19:10,909 --> 00:19:08,179
videos

526
00:19:13,549 --> 00:19:10,919
the flear and the gimbal video were

527
00:19:15,409 --> 00:19:13,559
released and I think that was a lot of

528
00:19:17,510 --> 00:19:15,419
what Drew people to that story you know

529
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:17,520
the regular person

530
00:19:22,310 --> 00:19:19,440
um and there are of course the bunkers

531
00:19:25,370 --> 00:19:22,320
that tried to debunk the videos

532
00:19:26,690 --> 00:19:25,380
but no I mean I I felt it all as a very

533
00:19:28,669 --> 00:19:26,700
positive

534
00:19:29,810 --> 00:19:28,679
to kind of project uh Pro you know

535
00:19:33,350 --> 00:19:29,820
progression of things that happened

536
00:19:35,090 --> 00:19:33,360
after that you know especially when

537
00:19:37,850 --> 00:19:35,100
Congress started to get more interested

538
00:19:39,830 --> 00:19:37,860
in it and um people were taken into

539
00:19:41,390 --> 00:19:39,840
brief people some of the pilots and

540
00:19:43,130 --> 00:19:41,400
others who were started brief members of

541
00:19:45,049 --> 00:19:43,140
Congress I mean that was

542
00:19:46,490 --> 00:19:45,059
a huge step forward which hadn't

543
00:19:48,890 --> 00:19:46,500
happened before

544
00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:48,900
so um

545
00:19:54,409 --> 00:19:51,840
no I mean I don't I tend to sort of

546
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:54,419
focus on the positive anyway and not

547
00:19:58,730 --> 00:19:56,640
dwell in the negative too much no that

548
00:20:01,190 --> 00:19:58,740
that's that's good to hear and the Opera

549
00:20:03,110 --> 00:20:01,200
has been discussed Ad nauseam by many

550
00:20:04,430 --> 00:20:03,120
people and I'm sure by yourself so we

551
00:20:06,110 --> 00:20:04,440
won't dwell on it too much and I've

552
00:20:08,150 --> 00:20:06,120
talked about it so many times on the

553
00:20:10,789 --> 00:20:08,160
podcast in various different ways people

554
00:20:13,430 --> 00:20:10,799
know what inside and out that have been

555
00:20:16,970 --> 00:20:13,440
following yeah yeah I just want to add

556
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:16,980
that we were under absolute strict

557
00:20:21,890 --> 00:20:20,880
control by our editors I mean the level

558
00:20:28,909 --> 00:20:21,900
of

559
00:20:32,150 --> 00:20:28,919
York Times was really intense and

560
00:20:33,650 --> 00:20:32,160
I mean we we would have liked to have

561
00:20:35,450 --> 00:20:33,660
included some things that we couldn't

562
00:20:37,130 --> 00:20:35,460
include because of the editors and we

563
00:20:39,289 --> 00:20:37,140
had to add in they wanted us to add in

564
00:20:41,930 --> 00:20:39,299
you know skeptical opinions and this

565
00:20:43,310 --> 00:20:41,940
kind of stuff and they just micromanage

566
00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:43,320
this story

567
00:20:48,110 --> 00:20:46,260
so it's a little bit hard when you work

568
00:20:49,870 --> 00:20:48,120
really really hard and you're coming up

569
00:20:52,730 --> 00:20:49,880
against that kind of

570
00:20:54,470 --> 00:20:52,740
control and then people criticize you

571
00:20:56,510 --> 00:20:54,480
for what you've done you know it's not

572
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:56,520
like there was one criticism I remember

573
00:21:01,190 --> 00:20:59,280
that um we didn't talk enough about the

574
00:21:03,289 --> 00:21:01,200
UFOs themselves and what the what the

575
00:21:06,110 --> 00:21:03,299
program had actually learned about UFOs

576
00:21:08,210 --> 00:21:06,120
it was all about who funded it and you

577
00:21:10,370 --> 00:21:08,220
know who how it was set up and Robert

578
00:21:13,970 --> 00:21:10,380
Bigelow got the contract to do this and

579
00:21:17,450 --> 00:21:13,980
that and and it's like that was what the

580
00:21:19,310 --> 00:21:17,460
times was willing to publish you know

581
00:21:22,490 --> 00:21:19,320
um so anyway I just kind of want people

582
00:21:24,350 --> 00:21:22,500
to know that there was a really intense

583
00:21:26,510 --> 00:21:24,360
level of control and the editors were

584
00:21:28,970 --> 00:21:26,520
almost like co-writing it they weren't

585
00:21:30,169 --> 00:21:28,980
really you know I mean when you do a

586
00:21:34,190 --> 00:21:30,179
story

587
00:21:35,990 --> 00:21:34,200
you you you sign off as the authors if

588
00:21:37,909 --> 00:21:36,000
if you don't like some edits if you

589
00:21:39,409 --> 00:21:37,919
really want to fight the edits and don't

590
00:21:41,630 --> 00:21:39,419
and and you're you know then you

591
00:21:43,490 --> 00:21:41,640
negotiate with them but it's not like

592
00:21:45,710 --> 00:21:43,500
they can force you to do something but

593
00:21:48,169 --> 00:21:45,720
they have a lot of power and

594
00:21:50,090 --> 00:21:48,179
you have to agree as the writers to

595
00:21:52,310 --> 00:21:50,100
accept their edits but

596
00:21:54,710 --> 00:21:52,320
anyway I just want people to know that

597
00:21:56,090 --> 00:21:54,720
there was a lot of control a lot of

598
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:56,100
editing for the New York Times on this

599
00:22:00,470 --> 00:21:58,559
story and it's not it's not surprising

600
00:22:02,510 --> 00:22:00,480
to me that there was given the nature of

601
00:22:05,149 --> 00:22:02,520
the subject no of course and I think

602
00:22:06,649 --> 00:22:05,159
naturally I've got to ask you see there

603
00:22:09,169 --> 00:22:06,659
are things you wanted to put in there

604
00:22:11,330 --> 00:22:09,179
that you weren't allowed and are there

605
00:22:13,250 --> 00:22:11,340
things that you still can't talk about

606
00:22:15,230 --> 00:22:13,260
obviously you wouldn't mention that here

607
00:22:17,630 --> 00:22:15,240
but is there anything now that you could

608
00:22:19,190 --> 00:22:17,640
see almost five years or one month away

609
00:22:21,950 --> 00:22:19,200
from the five-year anniversary of that

610
00:22:23,570 --> 00:22:21,960
article that now you could say this was

611
00:22:24,289 --> 00:22:23,580
going to go in but for some reason it

612
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:24,299
didn't

613
00:22:28,669 --> 00:22:26,400
yeah I mean it was really also because

614
00:22:29,990 --> 00:22:28,679
of space limitations you know there's a

615
00:22:32,510 --> 00:22:30,000
certain amount of words that you're

616
00:22:34,850 --> 00:22:32,520
allowed to write and there were certain

617
00:22:36,350 --> 00:22:34,860
things that were priorities and you know

618
00:22:37,130 --> 00:22:36,360
an example being

619
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:37,140
um

620
00:22:40,250 --> 00:22:38,880
we we you know we would have I would

621
00:22:45,049 --> 00:22:40,260
have liked to write a little more about

622
00:22:47,330 --> 00:22:45,059
what the program had to say about UAP

623
00:22:49,490 --> 00:22:47,340
you know what did they discover uh what

624
00:22:51,470 --> 00:22:49,500
were you know what something about um

625
00:22:54,350 --> 00:22:51,480
just the characteristics of the objects

626
00:22:57,049 --> 00:22:54,360
and and uh the what did the data show

627
00:22:58,669 --> 00:22:57,059
that they had spent five years or more

628
00:22:59,990 --> 00:22:58,679
than that studying just something along

629
00:23:02,570 --> 00:23:00,000
those lines

630
00:23:04,669 --> 00:23:02,580
I mean I can't go into too much detail

631
00:23:05,450 --> 00:23:04,679
about it but

632
00:23:07,970 --> 00:23:05,460
um

633
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:07,980
you know and I think we kind of did that

634
00:23:12,770 --> 00:23:10,080
with the next story which was in May of

635
00:23:14,810 --> 00:23:12,780
2019 when we when we focused on the

636
00:23:16,850 --> 00:23:14,820
pilot cases and that was when Ryan

637
00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:16,860
Graves came forward into you know he

638
00:23:20,510 --> 00:23:19,080
came through in our story and another

639
00:23:22,549 --> 00:23:20,520
pilot we talked about the East Coast

640
00:23:26,810 --> 00:23:22,559
sightings off the Roosevelt

641
00:23:29,149 --> 00:23:26,820
and I think and that story got even more

642
00:23:30,649 --> 00:23:29,159
hits than the first one it got more

643
00:23:33,230 --> 00:23:30,659
attention

644
00:23:35,990 --> 00:23:33,240
and I think it was because we were

645
00:23:37,789 --> 00:23:36,000
talking about the UFOs themselves the

646
00:23:39,590 --> 00:23:37,799
objects what they looked like and how

647
00:23:41,930 --> 00:23:39,600
they behaved and how did the pilots

648
00:23:43,610 --> 00:23:41,940
react and how did you know what did the

649
00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:43,620
pilots do when they encountered them

650
00:23:47,690 --> 00:23:45,840
that kind of thing is really really

651
00:23:49,070 --> 00:23:47,700
fascinating to people plus we had I

652
00:23:50,450 --> 00:23:49,080
think we had another video with that

653
00:23:52,370 --> 00:23:50,460
story as well

654
00:23:55,190 --> 00:23:52,380
which had already come out but it hadn't

655
00:23:57,110 --> 00:23:55,200
come out in the times and so I I

656
00:23:59,630 --> 00:23:57,120
remember that was

657
00:24:01,430 --> 00:23:59,640
I think it was the 10th or something in

658
00:24:03,049 --> 00:24:01,440
the in the so every year at the end of

659
00:24:05,990 --> 00:24:03,059
the year the New York Times issues their

660
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:06,000
100 most read stories of the previous

661
00:24:11,210 --> 00:24:09,120
year and that story I believe was number

662
00:24:13,669 --> 00:24:11,220
10 of all the stories in the New York

663
00:24:17,149 --> 00:24:13,679
Times for the whole year it was really

664
00:24:18,890 --> 00:24:17,159
really popular yeah so I think that's

665
00:24:21,230 --> 00:24:18,900
you know so I'm just making the point

666
00:24:23,390 --> 00:24:21,240
that people like to read more about the

667
00:24:24,890 --> 00:24:23,400
objects and the Mystery of the UFOs than

668
00:24:27,110 --> 00:24:24,900
they do about

669
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:27,120
how much the program was funded and who

670
00:24:31,730 --> 00:24:29,760
who set it up and all of that I think

671
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:31,740
that's an element as well of that that

672
00:24:35,750 --> 00:24:33,900
first article laid the foundation for

673
00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:35,760
for what was to come for many people and

674
00:24:40,010 --> 00:24:37,440
to get people back looking at the

675
00:24:41,210 --> 00:24:40,020
subject and you know no one visits the

676
00:24:42,770 --> 00:24:41,220
hotel when they're building the

677
00:24:44,450 --> 00:24:42,780
foundation but once it's open they'll

678
00:24:46,130 --> 00:24:44,460
come to visit and I suppose a lot of

679
00:24:49,130 --> 00:24:46,140
that was was what that second and

680
00:24:50,930 --> 00:24:49,140
subsequent articles has done there was

681
00:24:53,690 --> 00:24:50,940
another there are several follow-ups

682
00:24:55,370 --> 00:24:53,700
like you see after December 2017 and one

683
00:24:58,789 --> 00:24:55,380
that really got people talking ahead of

684
00:25:00,890 --> 00:24:58,799
time was July 2020 where you'll know

685
00:25:04,430 --> 00:25:00,900
yourself better than I the expectation

686
00:25:06,350 --> 00:25:04,440
online amongst the UFO community and was

687
00:25:08,930 --> 00:25:06,360
that there was going to be a full expose

688
00:25:10,789 --> 00:25:08,940
on Crash retrieval programs within the

689
00:25:13,430 --> 00:25:10,799
US government is essentially what that

690
00:25:16,070 --> 00:25:13,440
was being blown up online what came out

691
00:25:18,529 --> 00:25:16,080
well fantastic work was not quite a

692
00:25:20,570 --> 00:25:18,539
sensationalist as some people had

693
00:25:22,909 --> 00:25:20,580
reported would come out

694
00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:22,919
um was there a what could have been

695
00:25:29,149 --> 00:25:25,860
story there or is what came came out the

696
00:25:32,390 --> 00:25:29,159
original intended narrative and story

697
00:25:37,130 --> 00:25:32,400
yeah then that buzz online really

698
00:25:41,330 --> 00:25:40,730
um for the writers and but anyway

699
00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:41,340
um

700
00:25:46,010 --> 00:25:44,400
I you know I I don't feel like I'm not

701
00:25:47,810 --> 00:25:46,020
supposed to say a whole lot about our

702
00:25:50,210 --> 00:25:47,820
process with the times but just let's

703
00:25:52,909 --> 00:25:50,220
just just to say uh we certainly had

704
00:25:56,330 --> 00:25:52,919
more information than was included in

705
00:25:58,789 --> 00:25:56,340
that article and we had a certain length

706
00:26:00,830 --> 00:25:58,799
in which we could work and we had a an

707
00:26:01,850 --> 00:26:00,840
editor that we had to respond to and

708
00:26:04,970 --> 00:26:01,860
that's the best you know it's the best

709
00:26:07,390 --> 00:26:04,980
we could do at the time giving out all

710
00:26:11,390 --> 00:26:07,400
the circumstances we had to deal with

711
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:11,400
how it got blown up so much online

712
00:26:15,370 --> 00:26:13,200
I'm sure they were very disappointed

713
00:26:18,649 --> 00:26:15,380
when they read the article

714
00:26:20,269 --> 00:26:18,659
excuse me but just to have anything at

715
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:20,279
all about crash retrievals in the New

716
00:26:23,090 --> 00:26:21,360
York Times

717
00:26:25,070 --> 00:26:23,100
is a big accomplishment just have

718
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:25,080
anything to have a quote from Eric Davis

719
00:26:29,930 --> 00:26:28,320
saying and Lou Elizondo talking about it

720
00:26:32,510 --> 00:26:29,940
is you know

721
00:26:35,149 --> 00:26:32,520
I mean it wasn't easy to get what little

722
00:26:37,549 --> 00:26:35,159
we did get to get it into that paper

723
00:26:39,830 --> 00:26:37,559
yeah just to have that phrasing like

724
00:26:41,690 --> 00:26:39,840
off-world vehicles in there in any way

725
00:26:42,890 --> 00:26:41,700
shape or forms an achievement let alone

726
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:42,900
you know having the New York Times

727
00:26:47,570 --> 00:26:45,360
published statements like that

728
00:26:48,890 --> 00:26:47,580
I get why some people were disappointed

729
00:26:50,269 --> 00:26:48,900
but that was more of their own doing

730
00:26:51,830 --> 00:26:50,279
than anything else you know it's like

731
00:26:53,390 --> 00:26:51,840
one of the Marvel movies coming out and

732
00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:53,400
not quite having the ending you hoped

733
00:26:56,690 --> 00:26:54,720
for but you know you never made the

734
00:26:57,769 --> 00:26:56,700
movie you're just there to watch it

735
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:57,779
um and I get why that would be

736
00:27:01,549 --> 00:27:00,000
frustrating on the author's end as well

737
00:27:04,370 --> 00:27:01,559
that you're putting in that hard work

738
00:27:06,950 --> 00:27:04,380
and effort and no doubt given just the

739
00:27:09,350 --> 00:27:06,960
very nature of Crash retrievals and

740
00:27:11,450 --> 00:27:09,360
off-world vehicles recovered materials

741
00:27:13,490 --> 00:27:11,460
even if you've got some very good

742
00:27:15,169 --> 00:27:13,500
sources and you can go to an editor any

743
00:27:17,210 --> 00:27:15,179
paper let alone the New York Times and

744
00:27:19,430 --> 00:27:17,220
say look I want to write this

745
00:27:21,649 --> 00:27:19,440
as there are just some things that right

746
00:27:23,210 --> 00:27:21,659
now are still too Sensational to put

747
00:27:25,130 --> 00:27:23,220
into print

748
00:27:26,690 --> 00:27:25,140
yeah I mean I think that the real

749
00:27:28,250 --> 00:27:26,700
problem with that is that you don't you

750
00:27:30,350 --> 00:27:28,260
don't have

751
00:27:32,450 --> 00:27:30,360
classified right if if we have crash

752
00:27:34,310 --> 00:27:32,460
materials they're buried in in secret

753
00:27:37,190 --> 00:27:34,320
access programs and we don't have people

754
00:27:38,630 --> 00:27:37,200
on the record giving us any proof that

755
00:27:40,610 --> 00:27:38,640
they exist

756
00:27:42,169 --> 00:27:40,620
so that's for paper like the New York

757
00:27:45,649 --> 00:27:42,179
Times that's what you need you need

758
00:27:47,390 --> 00:27:45,659
corroboration you need documentation you

759
00:27:49,909 --> 00:27:47,400
don't just put it in because somebody

760
00:27:51,890 --> 00:27:49,919
says it which is really what we did it

761
00:27:53,570 --> 00:27:51,900
was just you have to rely on the

762
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:53,580
authority of the person making the

763
00:27:57,529 --> 00:27:55,919
statement but even when you have a real

764
00:28:00,590 --> 00:27:57,539
Authority making the statement it's very

765
00:28:03,350 --> 00:28:00,600
hard to not have more you know so they

766
00:28:05,750 --> 00:28:03,360
they had to qualify these statements by

767
00:28:08,510 --> 00:28:05,760
saying there is no proof that these

768
00:28:12,409 --> 00:28:08,520
exist you know and and that's absolutely

769
00:28:14,269 --> 00:28:12,419
true and if if to whatever and you know

770
00:28:15,769 --> 00:28:14,279
I mean I certainly have sources that

771
00:28:17,210 --> 00:28:15,779
talk to me off the Record but off the

772
00:28:19,070 --> 00:28:17,220
Record is off the Record

773
00:28:21,350 --> 00:28:19,080
so that's one of the problems with

774
00:28:23,029 --> 00:28:21,360
writing about that particular issue is

775
00:28:25,130 --> 00:28:23,039
that it's all classified and you can't

776
00:28:26,570 --> 00:28:25,140
document it or prove it or say where

777
00:28:28,070 --> 00:28:26,580
they are or what they've learned about

778
00:28:29,450 --> 00:28:28,080
them or how long they've had them or

779
00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:29,460
where they were retrieved or anything

780
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:34,320
right yeah so people can write blogs and

781
00:28:38,810 --> 00:28:36,480
speculate about all of that or have and

782
00:28:40,850 --> 00:28:38,820
also people can use unnamed sources

783
00:28:42,710 --> 00:28:40,860
sometimes like I think Politico does

784
00:28:45,169 --> 00:28:42,720
that we do not do that in the New York

785
00:28:46,610 --> 00:28:45,179
Times we have to get people on the

786
00:28:49,070 --> 00:28:46,620
record which means they give us their

787
00:28:51,529 --> 00:28:49,080
names and we can't write a story based

788
00:28:54,049 --> 00:28:51,539
on what three Anonymous sources tell us

789
00:28:55,190 --> 00:28:54,059
even though Julian bards did that in a

790
00:28:58,430 --> 00:28:55,200
recent article for the New York Times

791
00:28:59,870 --> 00:28:58,440
but certainly Ralph Blumenthal and

792
00:29:01,370 --> 00:28:59,880
Leslie Kane are not going to be able to

793
00:29:03,169 --> 00:29:01,380
we're not doing that you know we're

794
00:29:05,570 --> 00:29:03,179
we're not and we're Freelancers we're

795
00:29:08,390 --> 00:29:05,580
not staff there's a difference

796
00:29:11,570 --> 00:29:08,400
um and I I do want people to know that

797
00:29:14,750 --> 00:29:11,580
you know we are uh Ralph and I are our

798
00:29:17,330 --> 00:29:14,760
Freelancers for the Times which means if

799
00:29:19,730 --> 00:29:17,340
we have a story We pitch it to them

800
00:29:21,409 --> 00:29:19,740
and if they go for it we contribute a

801
00:29:22,909 --> 00:29:21,419
story at that particular time and then

802
00:29:25,450 --> 00:29:22,919
we we have nothing to do with the times

803
00:29:28,669 --> 00:29:25,460
other than our particular story so

804
00:29:30,889 --> 00:29:28,679
Julian Barnes is is a full-time staff

805
00:29:32,570 --> 00:29:30,899
member he's a full-time high-level

806
00:29:35,210 --> 00:29:32,580
reporter for the New York Times so he's

807
00:29:38,210 --> 00:29:35,220
gonna have his his situation is very

808
00:29:41,149 --> 00:29:38,220
different in that he's on the staff and

809
00:29:43,730 --> 00:29:41,159
um we Ralph and I have no influence at

810
00:29:46,070 --> 00:29:43,740
all over what anybody else at the Times

811
00:29:48,529 --> 00:29:46,080
writes so I just want to make sure

812
00:29:50,630 --> 00:29:48,539
people are clear about that that so that

813
00:29:53,029 --> 00:29:50,640
they don't mix us up with Julian Barnes

814
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:53,039
we we have absolutely no relationship

815
00:29:56,810 --> 00:29:54,720
with each other and we have nothing to

816
00:29:58,850 --> 00:29:56,820
do with what he has nothing to do with

817
00:30:00,769 --> 00:29:58,860
what we write and we have nothing to do

818
00:30:03,289 --> 00:30:00,779
with what he writes

819
00:30:04,610 --> 00:30:03,299
um so I just because I as I I was told

820
00:30:05,450 --> 00:30:04,620
that some people weren't clear about

821
00:30:10,310 --> 00:30:05,460
that

822
00:30:12,590 --> 00:30:10,320
the Julian Barnes uh articles any of the

823
00:30:14,210 --> 00:30:12,600
ones that he's done and I did notice

824
00:30:16,549 --> 00:30:14,220
that they gave they allowed him to use

825
00:30:17,990 --> 00:30:16,559
anonymous sources but you know we don't

826
00:30:19,789 --> 00:30:18,000
do that and so you know if we could have

827
00:30:21,649 --> 00:30:19,799
done that for crash retrievals maybe we

828
00:30:23,930 --> 00:30:21,659
would have been able to print more but

829
00:30:26,690 --> 00:30:23,940
but with a topic like that

830
00:30:28,490 --> 00:30:26,700
you've got to have names on the record

831
00:30:30,350 --> 00:30:28,500
well if I was going to read my next

832
00:30:32,149 --> 00:30:30,360
question what for word that begins

833
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:32,159
Julian bonds recently wrote an article

834
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:34,080
that many would see as a Counterpoint to

835
00:30:37,909 --> 00:30:36,240
yours Leslie so I'll just expand on that

836
00:30:39,289 --> 00:30:37,919
since you've mentioned Julian and I was

837
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:39,299
going to bring him up

838
00:30:46,190 --> 00:30:42,480
um yours Ralph's and Helene's work was

839
00:30:48,529 --> 00:30:46,200
uh seemed to really remove some of that

840
00:30:50,389 --> 00:30:48,539
stigma from the UFO conversation that's

841
00:30:52,190 --> 00:30:50,399
been there for a long time but for many

842
00:30:55,789 --> 00:30:52,200
I think what they saw as an issue was

843
00:30:57,409 --> 00:30:55,799
Julian Barnes take seemed to be an

844
00:30:59,389 --> 00:30:57,419
old-fashioned take on the UFO

845
00:31:01,730 --> 00:30:59,399
conversation rubbishing sightings as

846
00:31:03,649 --> 00:31:01,740
Airborne clutter foreign drones and such

847
00:31:06,110 --> 00:31:03,659
and let's be fair a lot of these

848
00:31:07,970 --> 00:31:06,120
sightings in general are just that which

849
00:31:10,310 --> 00:31:07,980
is which is fine that's to be expected

850
00:31:11,870 --> 00:31:10,320
in this topic though like you say it

851
00:31:13,730 --> 00:31:11,880
admits only half the cases being

852
00:31:16,669 --> 00:31:13,740
referred to an upcoming report of which

853
00:31:18,350 --> 00:31:16,679
the rumor is 366 and are actually

854
00:31:20,570 --> 00:31:18,360
identified

855
00:31:22,430 --> 00:31:20,580
if that type of reporting and I'm

856
00:31:24,289 --> 00:31:22,440
someone who at a very base level studied

857
00:31:26,450 --> 00:31:24,299
journalism when I was at University for

858
00:31:28,430 --> 00:31:26,460
a couple of years that still comes

859
00:31:31,010 --> 00:31:28,440
across as biased reporting and I wonder

860
00:31:33,169 --> 00:31:31,020
does that surprise you regardless of

861
00:31:35,810 --> 00:31:33,179
Julian Barnes permanency at the New York

862
00:31:39,049 --> 00:31:35,820
Times or not it's a very highly

863
00:31:40,669 --> 00:31:39,059
reputable paper and I just wonder given

864
00:31:41,810 --> 00:31:40,679
the effort you have gone to in the Hoops

865
00:31:43,970 --> 00:31:41,820
you've jumped through to get your

866
00:31:45,769 --> 00:31:43,980
articles published like you say Julian

867
00:31:49,490 --> 00:31:45,779
Barnes Wades in with

868
00:31:51,350 --> 00:31:49,500
a biased article that counters yours and

869
00:31:52,430 --> 00:31:51,360
like you say unnamed sources there as

870
00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:52,440
well

871
00:31:56,990 --> 00:31:55,440
yeah so tell me what's exactly is the

872
00:31:59,690 --> 00:31:57,000
question because I may or may not be

873
00:32:02,210 --> 00:31:59,700
able to answer it no at all so does that

874
00:32:05,090 --> 00:32:02,220
sort of biased type of reporting

875
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:05,100
surprise you or do you feel this is just

876
00:32:10,010 --> 00:32:08,399
the New York Times getting Fair time to

877
00:32:12,710 --> 00:32:10,020
the other side of the argument when it

878
00:32:14,450 --> 00:32:12,720
comes to the UFO topic

879
00:32:16,850 --> 00:32:14,460
um that's a really good question and you

880
00:32:18,409 --> 00:32:16,860
know I don't I don't think it's a matter

881
00:32:21,529 --> 00:32:18,419
of giving

882
00:32:23,630 --> 00:32:21,539
time to the other side because we we

883
00:32:24,710 --> 00:32:23,640
just reported facts in our stories you

884
00:32:27,409 --> 00:32:24,720
know we didn't

885
00:32:30,590 --> 00:32:27,419
I don't think our stories were biased I

886
00:32:32,570 --> 00:32:30,600
mean no we included skeptical comments

887
00:32:34,669 --> 00:32:32,580
in all of them maybe not I don't know

888
00:32:37,970 --> 00:32:34,679
yeah we did in all of them and we're

889
00:32:40,130 --> 00:32:37,980
just reporting the facts I feel that I I

890
00:32:41,990 --> 00:32:40,140
was surprised by his article I had no

891
00:32:44,750 --> 00:32:42,000
idea it was coming out I was as

892
00:32:47,389 --> 00:32:44,760
surprised as everybody else

893
00:32:50,149 --> 00:32:47,399
um and it you know

894
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:50,159
it's his perspective it's his I mean

895
00:32:54,830 --> 00:32:52,799
it's obvious that the sources he had

896
00:32:56,029 --> 00:32:54,840
provided the information that he wrote

897
00:32:59,630 --> 00:32:56,039
about

898
00:33:02,090 --> 00:32:59,640
and so he relied on certain sources to

899
00:33:04,909 --> 00:33:02,100
do that for him and I I have no idea

900
00:33:06,230 --> 00:33:04,919
what his bias is or what his you know I

901
00:33:07,970 --> 00:33:06,240
don't know anything about what went into

902
00:33:10,610 --> 00:33:07,980
that story and you know I don't want to

903
00:33:12,110 --> 00:33:10,620
comment on it too much but I was I was

904
00:33:14,810 --> 00:33:12,120
surprised

905
00:33:17,269 --> 00:33:14,820
that's for sure and I suspect he'll do

906
00:33:19,789 --> 00:33:17,279
another one after this report comes out

907
00:33:22,190 --> 00:33:19,799
if it ever does come out uh I suspect

908
00:33:24,889 --> 00:33:22,200
he'll do another story then he didn't he

909
00:33:26,930 --> 00:33:24,899
did a story following the June 2021

910
00:33:28,909 --> 00:33:26,940
report

911
00:33:30,350 --> 00:33:28,919
um which you know of course Ralph and I

912
00:33:32,269 --> 00:33:30,360
would have loved to have been able to

913
00:33:34,490 --> 00:33:32,279
cover that report and we would have

914
00:33:36,289 --> 00:33:34,500
given it a context because we have so

915
00:33:38,389 --> 00:33:36,299
much knowledge that

916
00:33:40,250 --> 00:33:38,399
some just a staff you know that he did

917
00:33:41,810 --> 00:33:40,260
he didn't have the context that we had I

918
00:33:44,570 --> 00:33:41,820
think we could have done a really good

919
00:33:45,950 --> 00:33:44,580
job but they're they're going to put

920
00:33:47,269 --> 00:33:45,960
their own people on their stories

921
00:33:50,450 --> 00:33:47,279
whenever they can

922
00:33:53,269 --> 00:33:50,460
so he'll cover the report and

923
00:33:54,889 --> 00:33:53,279
we'll see what that's like so

924
00:33:57,889 --> 00:33:54,899
uh

925
00:34:00,350 --> 00:33:57,899
yeah I I just can't go into it too much

926
00:34:02,090 --> 00:34:00,360
no no and I it's not okay so you know

927
00:34:03,590 --> 00:34:02,100
warning journalists or people you know

928
00:34:05,090 --> 00:34:03,600
going against colleagues and such I

929
00:34:07,190 --> 00:34:05,100
would never want that either I just

930
00:34:09,530 --> 00:34:07,200
wondered again in Broad terms though is

931
00:34:11,210 --> 00:34:09,540
there any danger of this signaling the

932
00:34:13,849 --> 00:34:11,220
New York Times having a change in

933
00:34:16,669 --> 00:34:13,859
attitude towards the subject or do you

934
00:34:19,310 --> 00:34:16,679
feel again it is it's fair

935
00:34:22,790 --> 00:34:19,320
I just don't know I mean

936
00:34:24,889 --> 00:34:22,800
um I really don't know I all we can do

937
00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:24,899
is find out if Ralph and I come up with

938
00:34:28,849 --> 00:34:27,359
another story and try to get it

939
00:34:31,129 --> 00:34:28,859
published and we would just have to see

940
00:34:31,970 --> 00:34:31,139
what the future holds

941
00:34:35,270 --> 00:34:31,980
um

942
00:34:38,450 --> 00:34:35,280
I mean new news stories are not supposed

943
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:38,460
to represent any kind of position

944
00:34:43,250 --> 00:34:40,800
so I think some people feel that perhaps

945
00:34:44,930 --> 00:34:43,260
his story was more like an op-ed piece

946
00:34:46,669 --> 00:34:44,940
or an opinion piece because every you

947
00:34:48,230 --> 00:34:46,679
know I know I hear you saying that you

948
00:34:49,310 --> 00:34:48,240
thought it was biased when you read it

949
00:34:51,649 --> 00:34:49,320
yeah

950
00:34:53,750 --> 00:34:51,659
so the people that feel that way have

951
00:34:55,310 --> 00:34:53,760
questioned perhaps this should you know

952
00:34:57,349 --> 00:34:55,320
it's more like what they call an opinion

953
00:34:59,030 --> 00:34:57,359
piece or an op-ed

954
00:35:01,490 --> 00:34:59,040
um because news stories are not supposed

955
00:35:03,290 --> 00:35:01,500
to be like that they're not so it really

956
00:35:05,270 --> 00:35:03,300
shouldn't be that the times is taking

957
00:35:07,730 --> 00:35:05,280
any position on this at all it should

958
00:35:09,710 --> 00:35:07,740
just be we're reporting the facts about

959
00:35:12,410 --> 00:35:09,720
this issue

960
00:35:14,450 --> 00:35:12,420
so people have to interpret it however

961
00:35:16,310 --> 00:35:14,460
they however they want

962
00:35:18,650 --> 00:35:16,320
um and you know I did look at the comp

963
00:35:20,470 --> 00:35:18,660
there were like 258 comments or

964
00:35:23,690 --> 00:35:20,480
something to his article

965
00:35:26,650 --> 00:35:23,700
uh and most of them are people in the

966
00:35:30,470 --> 00:35:26,660
comments we're not happy with the story

967
00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:30,480
so that's I don't know what else to say

968
00:35:34,130 --> 00:35:33,060
um well but thanks thanks for commenting

969
00:35:35,450 --> 00:35:34,140
as much as you could because I

970
00:35:37,730 --> 00:35:35,460
appreciate it's an awkward position to

971
00:35:40,130 --> 00:35:37,740
be put and um I do want to ask though

972
00:35:42,230 --> 00:35:40,140
just as our last word on your series of

973
00:35:44,930 --> 00:35:42,240
articles with Ralph and Helene and and

974
00:35:46,849 --> 00:35:44,940
whether you do any even on your own

975
00:35:48,770 --> 00:35:46,859
it seems like it's been almost like a

976
00:35:50,329 --> 00:35:48,780
franchise of Articles and it's been like

977
00:35:52,849 --> 00:35:50,339
the Marvel movies building to something

978
00:35:54,950 --> 00:35:52,859
and I just wonder if

979
00:35:56,390 --> 00:35:54,960
your series of Articles had now been

980
00:35:58,270 --> 00:35:56,400
written and there were no more to come

981
00:36:01,190 --> 00:35:58,280
on this topic with the New York Times

982
00:36:03,410 --> 00:36:01,200
would you feel a sense of unfinished

983
00:36:06,470 --> 00:36:03,420
business in that respect

984
00:36:08,210 --> 00:36:06,480
I think if we if we can't publish in the

985
00:36:09,950 --> 00:36:08,220
New York Times we will probably try to

986
00:36:13,250 --> 00:36:09,960
find another place to publish I mean

987
00:36:15,589 --> 00:36:13,260
Ralph and I feel very dedicated to our

988
00:36:19,010 --> 00:36:15,599
partnership as reporters in this and you

989
00:36:20,450 --> 00:36:19,020
know we only do certain kinds of stories

990
00:36:21,950 --> 00:36:20,460
um we want to keep the door open at the

991
00:36:23,030 --> 00:36:21,960
New York Times so we're certainly going

992
00:36:26,030 --> 00:36:23,040
to keep

993
00:36:27,950 --> 00:36:26,040
working there you know if we can if it

994
00:36:29,150 --> 00:36:27,960
ever becomes clear that we can't for

995
00:36:30,770 --> 00:36:29,160
some reason

996
00:36:32,510 --> 00:36:30,780
I don't think we're going to want to

997
00:36:36,170 --> 00:36:32,520
stop doing it we'll just find another

998
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:36,180
another venue where we can publish so

999
00:36:42,290 --> 00:36:38,880
we do intend to keep doing it but

1000
00:36:44,870 --> 00:36:42,300
it's um you know we we only do very

1001
00:36:47,810 --> 00:36:44,880
important kind of you know really

1002
00:36:50,450 --> 00:36:47,820
groundbreaking types of stories

1003
00:36:53,510 --> 00:36:50,460
um where we have people on the record

1004
00:36:56,089 --> 00:36:53,520
and we have a lot of data to put into

1005
00:36:58,069 --> 00:36:56,099
the story so there Matt that's why we

1006
00:36:59,930 --> 00:36:58,079
don't do them that often

1007
00:37:01,609 --> 00:36:59,940
and sometimes we have a story that the

1008
00:37:03,950 --> 00:37:01,619
New York Times doesn't

1009
00:37:05,690 --> 00:37:03,960
want and then it doesn't we don't end up

1010
00:37:08,329 --> 00:37:05,700
doing it so we just have to take

1011
00:37:09,710 --> 00:37:08,339
everything as it comes but uh we do we

1012
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:09,720
do intend to keep working together we'll

1013
00:37:12,470 --> 00:37:10,800
see what happens

1014
00:37:14,210 --> 00:37:12,480
well I'm sure the New York Times

1015
00:37:16,370 --> 00:37:14,220
appreciate the clicks that go their way

1016
00:37:18,410 --> 00:37:16,380
and the the buys of the papers if people

1017
00:37:19,490 --> 00:37:18,420
still buy print uh I know that's

1018
00:37:22,250 --> 00:37:19,500
becoming more and more of an

1019
00:37:24,589 --> 00:37:22,260
old-fashioned thing but I am subscribed

1020
00:37:27,290 --> 00:37:24,599
to one newspaper via my Gmail account

1021
00:37:28,970 --> 00:37:27,300
and it is the New York Times because of

1022
00:37:30,770 --> 00:37:28,980
those articles that you are writing with

1023
00:37:32,750 --> 00:37:30,780
your colleagues so I'm sure there are

1024
00:37:34,490 --> 00:37:32,760
many more people like myself that get a

1025
00:37:36,410 --> 00:37:34,500
whole load of New York Times alerts

1026
00:37:38,690 --> 00:37:36,420
every single day but we're just hoping

1027
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:38,700
it went up and pops up seeing UFO or UAP

1028
00:37:41,450 --> 00:37:39,839
in it

1029
00:37:43,609 --> 00:37:41,460
um so yeah thank you again for that work

1030
00:37:46,250 --> 00:37:43,619
but listen you mentioned Leslie the

1031
00:37:49,010 --> 00:37:46,260
report that was due as of the 31st of

1032
00:37:51,170 --> 00:37:49,020
October that was uh to be submitted as

1033
00:37:52,790 --> 00:37:51,180
we record this it's the 19th of November

1034
00:37:55,130 --> 00:37:52,800
and it's still unreleased so we're

1035
00:37:56,990 --> 00:37:55,140
coming on three weeks you had previously

1036
00:37:58,370 --> 00:37:57,000
heard it was due to be delayed by a few

1037
00:38:00,290 --> 00:37:58,380
days you mentioned that on James

1038
00:38:02,030 --> 00:38:00,300
iandoli's podcast engaging the

1039
00:38:03,349 --> 00:38:02,040
phenomenon hello to James I know you'll

1040
00:38:06,230 --> 00:38:03,359
be listening

1041
00:38:07,550 --> 00:38:06,240
um so any further updates or ideas why

1042
00:38:09,230 --> 00:38:07,560
we're still waiting because at the time

1043
00:38:11,569 --> 00:38:09,240
with James you did say it's going to be

1044
00:38:13,730 --> 00:38:11,579
delayed by a few days I've heard and you

1045
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:13,740
you sort of tail off and you say only a

1046
00:38:17,270 --> 00:38:15,119
few days and

1047
00:38:18,589 --> 00:38:17,280
I don't really have an inside scoop on

1048
00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:18,599
this I mean the people I've talked to

1049
00:38:23,089 --> 00:38:20,400
that know how things work in Washington

1050
00:38:25,670 --> 00:38:23,099
have told me that it's very it's very

1051
00:38:28,190 --> 00:38:25,680
common for a report to be delayed like

1052
00:38:30,470 --> 00:38:28,200
this I mean you can read into it what

1053
00:38:33,530 --> 00:38:30,480
you want but

1054
00:38:36,310 --> 00:38:33,540
there it wasn't like a required deadline

1055
00:38:39,530 --> 00:38:36,320
I mean Congress requested this report

1056
00:38:41,810 --> 00:38:39,540
so and apparently this happens all the

1057
00:38:43,970 --> 00:38:41,820
time in Congress Congress will request a

1058
00:38:48,050 --> 00:38:43,980
report and it's late

1059
00:38:50,089 --> 00:38:48,060
so you know I don't know why it's why

1060
00:38:52,310 --> 00:38:50,099
it's late but there are all kinds of

1061
00:38:53,630 --> 00:38:52,320
reasons why reports in general are late

1062
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:53,640
you know

1063
00:38:58,490 --> 00:38:56,640
so anyway I'm not I just don't have an

1064
00:39:00,650 --> 00:38:58,500
inside line to what's going on there

1065
00:39:02,210 --> 00:39:00,660
into the in within the agency or

1066
00:39:03,770 --> 00:39:02,220
anything

1067
00:39:05,390 --> 00:39:03,780
um I'm sure there are people that know

1068
00:39:07,430 --> 00:39:05,400
more about it than I do but I just I

1069
00:39:08,990 --> 00:39:07,440
don't know what's going on they ask you

1070
00:39:11,089 --> 00:39:09,000
for them being the best one is about

1071
00:39:14,030 --> 00:39:11,099
UFOs so straight away it's got the

1072
00:39:16,190 --> 00:39:14,040
conspiracy tag on there so all sorts of

1073
00:39:17,630 --> 00:39:16,200
rumors start don't they um but I tend to

1074
00:39:19,609 --> 00:39:17,640
leave those for other folks to discuss

1075
00:39:22,370 --> 00:39:19,619
which is always Fair rumors are always

1076
00:39:24,890 --> 00:39:22,380
fun but we're just not ready yet they

1077
00:39:26,870 --> 00:39:24,900
may just still be working on it on that

1078
00:39:29,089 --> 00:39:26,880
or I'll just say personally my

1079
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:29,099
expectations are that we're going to see

1080
00:39:34,310 --> 00:39:31,680
366 cases of which half of them are

1081
00:39:36,410 --> 00:39:34,320
identified half of them aren't

1082
00:39:38,270 --> 00:39:36,420
but outside of that I would imagine

1083
00:39:39,890 --> 00:39:38,280
we're not going to see too much in terms

1084
00:39:41,210 --> 00:39:39,900
of we're not going to see diagrams or

1085
00:39:43,430 --> 00:39:41,220
pictures we're not going to see videos

1086
00:39:45,589 --> 00:39:43,440
attached to it this is something that's

1087
00:39:47,450 --> 00:39:45,599
been put together by Dr Sean Kirkpatrick

1088
00:39:49,370 --> 00:39:47,460
and the small team over the course of

1089
00:39:52,190 --> 00:39:49,380
what seven months now since he started

1090
00:39:54,470 --> 00:39:52,200
in that role and it's a again a baby

1091
00:39:56,270 --> 00:39:54,480
steps it's an early report

1092
00:39:58,250 --> 00:39:56,280
and you'll remember as well as anyone

1093
00:39:59,870 --> 00:39:58,260
Leslie back when the first report was

1094
00:40:01,550 --> 00:39:59,880
due to come out Christopher Merlin

1095
00:40:04,130 --> 00:40:01,560
Louella zondo and others were on

1096
00:40:06,349 --> 00:40:04,140
mainstream media citing they did 33

1097
00:40:08,329 --> 00:40:06,359
years to put together a fully

1098
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:08,339
comprehensive report on this topic in

1099
00:40:12,170 --> 00:40:09,900
that six to nine months was not enough

1100
00:40:14,450 --> 00:40:12,180
time I just wonder what are your

1101
00:40:15,650 --> 00:40:14,460
expectations for for this report if

1102
00:40:18,050 --> 00:40:15,660
indeed it does come out in the coming

1103
00:40:19,970 --> 00:40:18,060
days and weeks that that we could see as

1104
00:40:21,530 --> 00:40:19,980
a best case scenario

1105
00:40:23,630 --> 00:40:21,540
yeah I mean I think it's pretty much

1106
00:40:25,069 --> 00:40:23,640
like what you said I mean it might be a

1107
00:40:26,870 --> 00:40:25,079
little bit better than the first one but

1108
00:40:27,710 --> 00:40:26,880
I don't think it's going to be hugely

1109
00:40:31,010 --> 00:40:27,720
better

1110
00:40:32,750 --> 00:40:31,020
uh I I just I don't think it'll be that

1111
00:40:35,150 --> 00:40:32,760
different and just as you said maybe

1112
00:40:37,730 --> 00:40:35,160
more cases

1113
00:40:38,990 --> 00:40:37,740
um but not a lot of data that's what it

1114
00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:39,000
you know that's what we're really not

1115
00:40:43,190 --> 00:40:41,040
getting is data you know specifics of

1116
00:40:45,950 --> 00:40:43,200
some of the cases or as you said

1117
00:40:47,810 --> 00:40:45,960
diagrams photographs videos uh details

1118
00:40:48,770 --> 00:40:47,820
about cases I I don't think we'll get

1119
00:40:51,589 --> 00:40:48,780
that

1120
00:40:53,390 --> 00:40:51,599
but you know I suspect it'll go a little

1121
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:53,400
bit further than it did before

1122
00:40:57,290 --> 00:40:55,200
but I really don't know I mean I don't

1123
00:40:58,970 --> 00:40:57,300
have any more special insight into it I

1124
00:41:01,970 --> 00:40:58,980
don't think that anybody else

1125
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:01,980
um and uh of course the classified one

1126
00:41:05,630 --> 00:41:04,079
is the one that'll be the really

1127
00:41:07,250 --> 00:41:05,640
important one and we don't get to see

1128
00:41:09,290 --> 00:41:07,260
that one so

1129
00:41:11,510 --> 00:41:09,300
hopefully the Congress will at least

1130
00:41:15,290 --> 00:41:11,520
receive something that's more

1131
00:41:17,030 --> 00:41:15,300
significant than what they got before

1132
00:41:19,069 --> 00:41:17,040
so I mean I think what's most important

1133
00:41:21,410 --> 00:41:19,079
is what goes to the Congress

1134
00:41:23,150 --> 00:41:21,420
and more than yeah that I was going to

1135
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:23,160
get the good stuff as people would say I

1136
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:24,560
just wonder though in terms of

1137
00:41:28,990 --> 00:41:26,880
unclassified report

1138
00:41:32,210 --> 00:41:29,000
Looking Down the Line This is funded to

1139
00:41:34,370 --> 00:41:32,220
2026 I believe is the year what what's

1140
00:41:36,170 --> 00:41:34,380
the best case scenario again you think

1141
00:41:38,030 --> 00:41:36,180
that with any political knowledge you

1142
00:41:39,829 --> 00:41:38,040
have which will even as small as it may

1143
00:41:41,990 --> 00:41:39,839
be will be more than mine if you haven't

1144
00:41:43,490 --> 00:41:42,000
I'm based in the UK what could these

1145
00:41:45,410 --> 00:41:43,500
reports become

1146
00:41:48,170 --> 00:41:45,420
are we going to get to a point we could

1147
00:41:49,849 --> 00:41:48,180
get videos or or pictures released to

1148
00:41:51,470 --> 00:41:49,859
the public or is that still just too

1149
00:41:53,210 --> 00:41:51,480
much of an ask

1150
00:41:54,829 --> 00:41:53,220
I don't know I mean maybe that will

1151
00:41:57,589 --> 00:41:54,839
happen but not necessarily in the

1152
00:41:59,150 --> 00:41:57,599
context of the of the reports because um

1153
00:42:01,190 --> 00:41:59,160
we do have the possibility of

1154
00:42:02,450 --> 00:42:01,200
whistleblowers coming forward in the

1155
00:42:05,270 --> 00:42:02,460
next year or two

1156
00:42:07,569 --> 00:42:05,280
based on this new legislation that gives

1157
00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:07,579
more greater protections to them so

1158
00:42:13,990 --> 00:42:10,560
there might be additional hearings also

1159
00:42:16,849 --> 00:42:14,000
in in the senate or in in the house

1160
00:42:19,730 --> 00:42:16,859
and those venues and through those

1161
00:42:21,109 --> 00:42:19,740
processes perhaps videos or photographs

1162
00:42:22,849 --> 00:42:21,119
would be released so I don't think it's

1163
00:42:26,510 --> 00:42:22,859
only the report

1164
00:42:27,829 --> 00:42:26,520
that we you know that we can expect for

1165
00:42:30,109 --> 00:42:27,839
those kinds of things to happen I think

1166
00:42:30,950 --> 00:42:30,119
they they might happen in other ways

1167
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:30,960
um

1168
00:42:35,690 --> 00:42:33,599
so especially if there are additional

1169
00:42:37,970 --> 00:42:35,700
hearings perhaps some of the some of our

1170
00:42:40,310 --> 00:42:37,980
Representatives will want

1171
00:42:42,410 --> 00:42:40,320
to bring forward some better videos and

1172
00:42:43,609 --> 00:42:42,420
photos than we saw at the last hearing

1173
00:42:46,069 --> 00:42:43,619
because I don't think they were too

1174
00:42:47,569 --> 00:42:46,079
happy with those so let's see that

1175
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:47,579
didn't go well and they can even work

1176
00:42:51,530 --> 00:42:49,920
VLC media player at the time from what I

1177
00:42:53,810 --> 00:42:51,540
remember either

1178
00:42:55,550 --> 00:42:53,820
um listen I want to ask and it's like

1179
00:42:57,470 --> 00:42:55,560
you're reading the screen that there was

1180
00:42:59,630 --> 00:42:57,480
a rumored immunity for whistleblowers

1181
00:43:02,329 --> 00:42:59,640
I've spoken with Jack valet recently Jim

1182
00:43:03,829 --> 00:43:02,339
semivan Gary Nolan all discussing these

1183
00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:03,839
possibilities

1184
00:43:08,030 --> 00:43:06,000
um and I wonder if if you had a limited

1185
00:43:10,190 --> 00:43:08,040
window to interview one potential

1186
00:43:13,130 --> 00:43:10,200
whistleblower or someone that would

1187
00:43:15,290 --> 00:43:13,140
speak outside of their NDA restraints

1188
00:43:18,050 --> 00:43:15,300
and the New York Times said you've got

1189
00:43:19,550 --> 00:43:18,060
to do it tonight ndas are lifted uh but

1190
00:43:24,470 --> 00:43:19,560
we need to put in the paper by tomorrow

1191
00:43:30,770 --> 00:43:27,470
um I do know some whistleblower of them

1192
00:43:34,250 --> 00:43:30,780
I know one and I know of others but

1193
00:43:36,530 --> 00:43:34,260
um the issue is is whether they want to

1194
00:43:40,190 --> 00:43:36,540
come forward or not not whether I want

1195
00:43:43,010 --> 00:43:40,200
to report on it and I think they're wise

1196
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:43,020
to wait until the process is in place

1197
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:45,119
they need to follow the process that's

1198
00:43:47,690 --> 00:43:46,560
being set up for them if they want to

1199
00:43:49,849 --> 00:43:47,700
have the protections that are being

1200
00:43:51,710 --> 00:43:49,859
offered it's a very very sensitive

1201
00:43:54,290 --> 00:43:51,720
business for these people and they're

1202
00:43:56,390 --> 00:43:54,300
taking a great risk because uh there

1203
00:43:58,130 --> 00:43:56,400
could be repercussions against them you

1204
00:43:59,750 --> 00:43:58,140
know there are there are people that do

1205
00:44:00,890 --> 00:43:59,760
not want this kind of information to

1206
00:44:03,530 --> 00:44:00,900
come out

1207
00:44:05,270 --> 00:44:03,540
so I would um

1208
00:44:07,010 --> 00:44:05,280
you know I don't think I would ever be

1209
00:44:09,290 --> 00:44:07,020
in that situation

1210
00:44:11,329 --> 00:44:09,300
um unless there was a competing

1211
00:44:12,950 --> 00:44:11,339
newspaper that was about to do it and we

1212
00:44:16,910 --> 00:44:12,960
had to beat them or something like that

1213
00:44:20,690 --> 00:44:16,920
but I would want to see them go through

1214
00:44:23,030 --> 00:44:20,700
the required procedure before they go to

1215
00:44:24,829 --> 00:44:23,040
the press for their own protection and

1216
00:44:26,569 --> 00:44:24,839
for their own legitimacy yeah you know

1217
00:44:28,069 --> 00:44:26,579
if they bypass that

1218
00:44:29,870 --> 00:44:28,079
it just doesn't give them the

1219
00:44:31,190 --> 00:44:29,880
credibility that they deserve but more

1220
00:44:32,930 --> 00:44:31,200
importantly it doesn't give them the

1221
00:44:34,490 --> 00:44:32,940
protection that they have to have that

1222
00:44:36,050 --> 00:44:34,500
they need to have

1223
00:44:39,109 --> 00:44:36,060
so

1224
00:44:40,970 --> 00:44:39,119
um I you know I just want them to take

1225
00:44:42,650 --> 00:44:40,980
their time and do do what's best for

1226
00:44:44,809 --> 00:44:42,660
them and and make sure that they're safe

1227
00:44:46,190 --> 00:44:44,819
that's what's important yeah I've

1228
00:44:47,930 --> 00:44:46,200
mentioned on the podcast as well

1229
00:44:50,030 --> 00:44:47,940
speaking to several of the names I

1230
00:44:52,130 --> 00:44:50,040
mentioned and other people even just

1231
00:44:53,450 --> 00:44:52,140
taking a Louis zondo who's the the

1232
00:44:55,370 --> 00:44:53,460
biggest name and that's at the moment

1233
00:44:56,990 --> 00:44:55,380
for the length of time he's been

1234
00:44:57,950 --> 00:44:57,000
discussing the topic and what his role

1235
00:45:00,290 --> 00:44:57,960
was

1236
00:45:03,770 --> 00:45:00,300
people want ludgers to come out on Fox

1237
00:45:05,630 --> 00:45:03,780
or NBC or CNN and talk about the UFOs

1238
00:45:07,790 --> 00:45:05,640
the crash retrieval programs where the

1239
00:45:10,010 --> 00:45:07,800
bodies are and Effie had that kind of

1240
00:45:13,190 --> 00:45:10,020
knowledge but people forget Lou's got a

1241
00:45:15,109 --> 00:45:13,200
family he loves good children Lou has a

1242
00:45:16,790 --> 00:45:15,119
life he wants to live in relative peace

1243
00:45:18,349 --> 00:45:16,800
and Harmony I'm sure as well and all of

1244
00:45:20,510 --> 00:45:18,359
that goes away that safety that

1245
00:45:23,329 --> 00:45:20,520
protection it's not just as easy for

1246
00:45:26,450 --> 00:45:23,339
someone as it to come out and and do you

1247
00:45:28,069 --> 00:45:26,460
think even if those options and safeties

1248
00:45:30,770 --> 00:45:28,079
are afforded I promise to these people

1249
00:45:32,870 --> 00:45:30,780
will still see a reluctance for

1250
00:45:35,270 --> 00:45:32,880
individuals to come forward

1251
00:45:37,130 --> 00:45:35,280
yeah I mean the first point is if for

1252
00:45:38,809 --> 00:45:37,140
Lou or anybody to talk about that kind

1253
00:45:40,490 --> 00:45:38,819
of information they're actually breaking

1254
00:45:42,890 --> 00:45:40,500
the law right this is classified

1255
00:45:44,410 --> 00:45:42,900
information so if they do have access to

1256
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:44,420
it

1257
00:45:54,290 --> 00:45:52,800
of the law they are they are risking the

1258
00:45:56,270 --> 00:45:54,300
National Security of the United States

1259
00:45:58,490 --> 00:45:56,280
by talking about classified information

1260
00:46:00,710 --> 00:45:58,500
and

1261
00:46:03,109 --> 00:46:00,720
good patriotic people are not going to

1262
00:46:04,970 --> 00:46:03,119
do that you know for a lot of reasons I

1263
00:46:07,309 --> 00:46:04,980
mean

1264
00:46:10,370 --> 00:46:07,319
you just can't ask people to do that to

1265
00:46:12,050 --> 00:46:10,380
to go to jail and break the law and

1266
00:46:14,270 --> 00:46:12,060
they've taken oath not to do that I

1267
00:46:16,069 --> 00:46:14,280
completely respect that I think what's

1268
00:46:17,690 --> 00:46:16,079
really special about this procedure

1269
00:46:20,690 --> 00:46:17,700
that's being put in place is that

1270
00:46:22,490 --> 00:46:20,700
they're being allowed to release the the

1271
00:46:24,829 --> 00:46:22,500
ndas that they've signed are being

1272
00:46:26,930 --> 00:46:24,839
released and so they will be able to

1273
00:46:28,970 --> 00:46:26,940
provide some of this information to to

1274
00:46:31,790 --> 00:46:28,980
Congress

1275
00:46:34,609 --> 00:46:31,800
um but I still think

1276
00:46:36,050 --> 00:46:34,619
those doing that are still at risk even

1277
00:46:38,390 --> 00:46:36,060
though the the

1278
00:46:40,790 --> 00:46:38,400
you know the oversight is there by

1279
00:46:43,609 --> 00:46:40,800
Congress I think they need more more

1280
00:46:45,829 --> 00:46:43,619
protection than Congress can provide and

1281
00:46:47,870 --> 00:46:45,839
hopefully there will be other areas of

1282
00:46:50,950 --> 00:46:47,880
government that will provide that

1283
00:46:53,270 --> 00:46:50,960
but they still might be at risk because

1284
00:46:55,010 --> 00:46:53,280
there are forces out there that can

1285
00:46:58,970 --> 00:46:55,020
pretty much do what they want if they

1286
00:47:02,329 --> 00:46:58,980
want to you know cause harm to somebody

1287
00:47:04,609 --> 00:47:02,339
um I think one thing to remind people is

1288
00:47:07,309 --> 00:47:04,619
that the it does exempt this this this

1289
00:47:08,690 --> 00:47:07,319
protection this whistleblower invitation

1290
00:47:10,430 --> 00:47:08,700
that's sort of being offered to people

1291
00:47:13,190 --> 00:47:10,440
through this legislation

1292
00:47:14,990 --> 00:47:13,200
does it um it does not include people

1293
00:47:17,270 --> 00:47:15,000
who want to talk about special access

1294
00:47:19,010 --> 00:47:17,280
programs and really really top secret

1295
00:47:21,170 --> 00:47:19,020
programs that they're sort of exempt

1296
00:47:22,670 --> 00:47:21,180
from this so I think anything that you

1297
00:47:25,190 --> 00:47:22,680
know so I don't know I mean the crash

1298
00:47:27,829 --> 00:47:25,200
retrieval information is

1299
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:27,839
possibly not even covered under this

1300
00:47:32,690 --> 00:47:29,760
because those would be in special access

1301
00:47:34,849 --> 00:47:32,700
programs so I don't exactly know what

1302
00:47:38,329 --> 00:47:34,859
kind of information might come through

1303
00:47:38,990 --> 00:47:38,339
this process given that exemption

1304
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:39,000
um

1305
00:47:44,150 --> 00:47:40,800
but

1306
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:44,160
I just think that I I think it takes a

1307
00:47:48,589 --> 00:47:46,800
lot of Courage for people to do it when

1308
00:47:50,390 --> 00:47:48,599
they you know even though they they're

1309
00:47:52,970 --> 00:47:50,400
given under the law this protection

1310
00:47:55,309 --> 00:47:52,980
there's always a risk

1311
00:47:57,410 --> 00:47:55,319
and they can they can receive push you

1312
00:48:00,050 --> 00:47:57,420
know blowback at work they can have big

1313
00:48:02,329 --> 00:48:00,060
characters can character can be smeared

1314
00:48:04,490 --> 00:48:02,339
and they can be

1315
00:48:06,770 --> 00:48:04,500
um you know there's plenty of ways for

1316
00:48:07,970 --> 00:48:06,780
people who don't like it to take action

1317
00:48:10,069 --> 00:48:07,980
against them

1318
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:10,079
and um

1319
00:48:14,809 --> 00:48:12,000
they're risking their jobs you know

1320
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:14,819
they're risking their reputations and

1321
00:48:18,250 --> 00:48:16,160
their safety

1322
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:18,260
and um

1323
00:48:23,270 --> 00:48:21,359
so we'll see how far the process goes I

1324
00:48:24,650 --> 00:48:23,280
mean I'm hopeful about it but I also

1325
00:48:27,770 --> 00:48:24,660
recognize that there are a lot of

1326
00:48:29,890 --> 00:48:27,780
obstacles to it as well yeah speaking of

1327
00:48:31,910 --> 00:48:29,900
obstacles the Air Force are famously

1328
00:48:35,210 --> 00:48:31,920
non-communicative when it comes to this

1329
00:48:36,829 --> 00:48:35,220
topic um not particularly helpful in

1330
00:48:38,750 --> 00:48:36,839
terms of any communication what they

1331
00:48:40,730 --> 00:48:38,760
want to come out and I think of of

1332
00:48:42,470 --> 00:48:40,740
anyone they are one organization that

1333
00:48:44,450 --> 00:48:42,480
doesn't want this story to come out and

1334
00:48:46,670 --> 00:48:44,460
would happily see it go away for various

1335
00:48:49,250 --> 00:48:46,680
reasons I've heard you mention and

1336
00:48:51,650 --> 00:48:49,260
others Leslie that the Air Force going

1337
00:48:54,650 --> 00:48:51,660
the involvement in this goes back 50 60

1338
00:48:56,710 --> 00:48:54,660
70 years or more and that maybe some

1339
00:48:58,970 --> 00:48:56,720
people who were involved in those early

1340
00:49:01,910 --> 00:48:58,980
cover-ups for what whatever it may have

1341
00:49:04,069 --> 00:49:01,920
been sightings data retrievals had the

1342
00:49:05,630 --> 00:49:04,079
best intentions at the time and thought

1343
00:49:08,109 --> 00:49:05,640
they were doing the best thing but

1344
00:49:10,849 --> 00:49:08,119
serving their country National Security

1345
00:49:12,589 --> 00:49:10,859
but ended up doing things that maybe now

1346
00:49:15,829 --> 00:49:12,599
would be frowned upon if that came out

1347
00:49:17,690 --> 00:49:15,839
and I wonder in your time researching

1348
00:49:20,270 --> 00:49:17,700
this have you tried to reach out to

1349
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:20,280
sources within the Air Force often and

1350
00:49:23,329 --> 00:49:21,599
what are those attempts at communication

1351
00:49:25,490 --> 00:49:23,339
like for you trying to get someone from

1352
00:49:28,250 --> 00:49:25,500
the Air Force to talk

1353
00:49:31,910 --> 00:49:28,260
I don't I have never talked to anybody

1354
00:49:34,309 --> 00:49:31,920
who is not who is current with the Air

1355
00:49:36,050 --> 00:49:34,319
Force I just have I don't have any sorts

1356
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:36,060
I have I've talked to retired people

1357
00:49:38,930 --> 00:49:37,680
from the people who've retired from the

1358
00:49:41,930 --> 00:49:38,940
Air Force

1359
00:49:43,490 --> 00:49:41,940
but no I mean I I you're right that

1360
00:49:45,950 --> 00:49:43,500
they're just not

1361
00:49:49,069 --> 00:49:45,960
off they're not as as available as

1362
00:49:49,609 --> 00:49:49,079
people are in the Navy say

1363
00:49:53,329 --> 00:49:49,619
um

1364
00:49:54,710 --> 00:49:53,339
and I I mean some people want to hold I

1365
00:49:56,870 --> 00:49:54,720
don't know I think that there should be

1366
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:56,880
kind of an immunity granted to

1367
00:50:03,770 --> 00:50:00,480
anybody who did things in the past that

1368
00:50:05,210 --> 00:50:03,780
it's just such it's you know the I don't

1369
00:50:08,030 --> 00:50:05,220
think we should be going after people

1370
00:50:10,010 --> 00:50:08,040
who did things in the 1960s or 70s or

1371
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:10,020
50s no

1372
00:50:13,309 --> 00:50:12,000
that were that they thought were the

1373
00:50:15,589 --> 00:50:13,319
right thing to do for a whole lot of

1374
00:50:17,809 --> 00:50:15,599
reasons at the time I just don't think

1375
00:50:19,309 --> 00:50:17,819
that's productive and I think if we want

1376
00:50:21,770 --> 00:50:19,319
the Air Force to cooperate the best

1377
00:50:25,550 --> 00:50:21,780
thing we can do is to

1378
00:50:27,890 --> 00:50:25,560
it just let some of that go

1379
00:50:29,450 --> 00:50:27,900
but you know I'm really I'm not involved

1380
00:50:30,770 --> 00:50:29,460
at all with the Air Force I just don't

1381
00:50:34,010 --> 00:50:30,780
know

1382
00:50:35,870 --> 00:50:34,020
uh that much about their position and

1383
00:50:38,270 --> 00:50:35,880
how you know what kind of

1384
00:50:39,829 --> 00:50:38,280
who's been reaching out to them and what

1385
00:50:43,250 --> 00:50:39,839
their relationship is to the current

1386
00:50:44,750 --> 00:50:43,260
agency the arrow uh and I think

1387
00:50:46,250 --> 00:50:44,760
everyone's hoping for more involvement

1388
00:50:47,990 --> 00:50:46,260
from them but

1389
00:50:49,390 --> 00:50:48,000
I really don't know that much about it

1390
00:50:53,030 --> 00:50:49,400
I'm just not

1391
00:50:54,650 --> 00:50:53,040
involved but I do not believe in just

1392
00:50:56,569 --> 00:50:54,660
sort of going after them for things that

1393
00:50:58,910 --> 00:50:56,579
happened decades ago

1394
00:51:00,589 --> 00:50:58,920
I don't think that's a good idea and I

1395
00:51:02,510 --> 00:51:00,599
think it'll it could slow down the

1396
00:51:03,890 --> 00:51:02,520
process if we want the Air Force to

1397
00:51:05,870 --> 00:51:03,900
cooperate

1398
00:51:08,150 --> 00:51:05,880
you know going after them and trying to

1399
00:51:10,190 --> 00:51:08,160
punish them is not going to help them

1400
00:51:12,710 --> 00:51:10,200
come forward and help them be part of a

1401
00:51:15,170 --> 00:51:12,720
positive process by which more and more

1402
00:51:16,849 --> 00:51:15,180
is revealed and by which they are going

1403
00:51:19,730 --> 00:51:16,859
to cooperate with other agencies it's

1404
00:51:21,589 --> 00:51:19,740
just not it slows the process down and

1405
00:51:23,569 --> 00:51:21,599
maybe even stops it

1406
00:51:25,250 --> 00:51:23,579
because if they if they feel that that's

1407
00:51:28,089 --> 00:51:25,260
in their future they're not going to be

1408
00:51:30,470 --> 00:51:28,099
supportive of any kind of process of of

1409
00:51:31,730 --> 00:51:30,480
Greater transparency

1410
00:51:33,290 --> 00:51:31,740
they're going to feel they have to

1411
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:33,300
protect themselves

1412
00:51:37,370 --> 00:51:35,760
so it's it's a it's a tricky situation

1413
00:51:39,290 --> 00:51:37,380
in that level

1414
00:51:41,210 --> 00:51:39,300
I think that's a good place Leslie to

1415
00:51:42,589 --> 00:51:41,220
move on to the the second part of the

1416
00:51:43,849 --> 00:51:42,599
show to be honest because we've covered

1417
00:51:45,530 --> 00:51:43,859
a lot of ground there and it's all tied

1418
00:51:48,049 --> 00:51:45,540
in quite nicely together so thank you

1419
00:51:50,690 --> 00:51:48,059
very much and the second part I do want

1420
00:51:53,329 --> 00:51:50,700
to move a little bit into your work on

1421
00:51:55,069 --> 00:51:53,339
life after death and how that ties in

1422
00:51:56,870 --> 00:51:55,079
with the UFO topic and then some

1423
00:51:58,250 --> 00:51:56,880
listener questions as well of course

1424
00:52:00,589 --> 00:51:58,260
including the

1425
00:52:02,930 --> 00:52:00,599
um inquiry and enormous experiences and

1426
00:52:04,670 --> 00:52:02,940
the phenomenon conference every time I

1427
00:52:07,210 --> 00:52:04,680
say that I just wish James and Jay had

1428
00:52:09,650 --> 00:52:07,220
settled for a slightly shorter

1429
00:52:11,870 --> 00:52:09,660
because I always forget it and have to

1430
00:52:13,309 --> 00:52:11,880
read it so thank you gents for that and

1431
00:52:14,809 --> 00:52:13,319
maybe they're working with arrow and

1432
00:52:16,309 --> 00:52:14,819
such for coming up with these acronyms

1433
00:52:17,270 --> 00:52:16,319
that the US government are coming out

1434
00:52:18,230 --> 00:52:17,280
with

1435
00:52:20,150 --> 00:52:18,240
um

1436
00:52:21,650 --> 00:52:20,160
listen you've done some great work as I

1437
00:52:24,109 --> 00:52:21,660
mentioned at the beginning on other

1438
00:52:26,690 --> 00:52:24,119
areas of the Paranormal specifically the

1439
00:52:28,250 --> 00:52:26,700
idea of life after death your book was a

1440
00:52:30,230 --> 00:52:28,260
huge success and was then the

1441
00:52:32,690 --> 00:52:30,240
inspiration behind a very well received

1442
00:52:34,910 --> 00:52:32,700
six-part Netflix series

1443
00:52:38,210 --> 00:52:34,920
um people who have died and come back

1444
00:52:39,770 --> 00:52:38,220
reports seeing beings or others when

1445
00:52:42,589 --> 00:52:39,780
they're crossing over to whatever is

1446
00:52:45,109 --> 00:52:42,599
beyond this life and and I wonder do you

1447
00:52:48,950 --> 00:52:45,119
see many crossovers in your work on the

1448
00:52:51,950 --> 00:52:48,960
afterlife and UFOs coming together

1449
00:52:53,809 --> 00:52:51,960
I mean I'm just beginning to get more of

1450
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:53,819
a handle on that Andy you know when I

1451
00:52:58,130 --> 00:52:55,680
wrote the book surviving death which was

1452
00:53:01,490 --> 00:52:58,140
I started in around 2013 I think

1453
00:53:02,210 --> 00:53:01,500
actually writing it came out in 2017.

1454
00:53:04,370 --> 00:53:02,220
um

1455
00:53:07,309 --> 00:53:04,380
I really thought of it as a subject

1456
00:53:08,809 --> 00:53:07,319
completely separate from UFOs you know I

1457
00:53:11,390 --> 00:53:08,819
didn't I just didn't see the connection

1458
00:53:14,390 --> 00:53:11,400
I mean in any big way because I'd always

1459
00:53:16,190 --> 00:53:14,400
focus on UFOs as physical objects and

1460
00:53:18,770 --> 00:53:16,200
I've looked you know from the military's

1461
00:53:20,930 --> 00:53:18,780
perspective right and Pilots physical

1462
00:53:21,710 --> 00:53:20,940
objects that you can see on radar you

1463
00:53:24,349 --> 00:53:21,720
know

1464
00:53:26,630 --> 00:53:24,359
and of course and then I did this other

1465
00:53:28,010 --> 00:53:26,640
book about different

1466
00:53:29,630 --> 00:53:28,020
um research that's been done on the

1467
00:53:31,849 --> 00:53:29,640
possibility of the survival of

1468
00:53:33,530 --> 00:53:31,859
Consciousness past death and it just

1469
00:53:36,650 --> 00:53:33,540
seemed to me to be completely unrelated

1470
00:53:39,109 --> 00:53:36,660
but as I've learned more and more and

1471
00:53:40,250 --> 00:53:39,119
and I'm I'm way behind many others who

1472
00:53:42,589 --> 00:53:40,260
have been thinking about these things

1473
00:53:44,809 --> 00:53:42,599
for a long time you know I'm just much

1474
00:53:46,730 --> 00:53:44,819
more aware of the Paranormal kind of

1475
00:53:48,410 --> 00:53:46,740
high strangeness elements of the UFO

1476
00:53:50,690 --> 00:53:48,420
phenomenon which really don't feature

1477
00:53:52,730 --> 00:53:50,700
into the reporting that I do because

1478
00:53:54,589 --> 00:53:52,740
that it's just not the right time and

1479
00:53:57,470 --> 00:53:54,599
you know we don't we don't do that yet

1480
00:53:59,690 --> 00:53:57,480
they're not ready for that but um I

1481
00:54:01,910 --> 00:53:59,700
think that's partly why I haven't been

1482
00:54:05,030 --> 00:54:01,920
you know as focused on it myself because

1483
00:54:07,849 --> 00:54:05,040
of just the the work I do just doesn't

1484
00:54:09,890 --> 00:54:07,859
include that but um

1485
00:54:12,349 --> 00:54:09,900
you know I'm much more aware of it now

1486
00:54:15,829 --> 00:54:12,359
I'm I'm more aware of the links between

1487
00:54:18,410 --> 00:54:15,839
Consciousness and the the UFO phenomenon

1488
00:54:20,089 --> 00:54:18,420
and the impact that it has on people's

1489
00:54:22,250 --> 00:54:20,099
Consciousness if they do have an

1490
00:54:25,130 --> 00:54:22,260
encounter say

1491
00:54:27,470 --> 00:54:25,140
um and then how that connects with a lot

1492
00:54:28,849 --> 00:54:27,480
of Sci phenomena and PSI abilities and

1493
00:54:30,710 --> 00:54:28,859
all of that connects with the question

1494
00:54:33,950 --> 00:54:30,720
of of consciousness

1495
00:54:35,690 --> 00:54:33,960
and what is it in is does it go beyond

1496
00:54:37,210 --> 00:54:35,700
the physical body and it's all just sort

1497
00:54:39,890 --> 00:54:37,220
of becomes this

1498
00:54:40,490 --> 00:54:39,900
Universe of mystery and questioning you

1499
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:40,500
know

1500
00:54:44,809 --> 00:54:42,960
I can't say I have answers but I I

1501
00:54:46,069 --> 00:54:44,819
definitely think there there is a

1502
00:54:48,710 --> 00:54:46,079
connection

1503
00:54:50,329 --> 00:54:48,720
um and you know I think people like

1504
00:54:52,790 --> 00:54:50,339
Jacques valet have been exploring that

1505
00:54:54,829 --> 00:54:52,800
but Whitley there's another one

1506
00:54:55,849 --> 00:54:54,839
who has been exploring that for a long

1507
00:54:56,510 --> 00:54:55,859
time

1508
00:54:59,030 --> 00:54:56,520
um

1509
00:55:03,049 --> 00:54:59,040
and you know there he talks about cases

1510
00:55:05,270 --> 00:55:03,059
of under of people who have will go on a

1511
00:55:07,849 --> 00:55:05,280
have a abduction experience or some kind

1512
00:55:10,910 --> 00:55:07,859
of close encounter experience and they

1513
00:55:13,790 --> 00:55:10,920
will see a dead person in that during

1514
00:55:16,370 --> 00:55:13,800
that experience that involves a UFO

1515
00:55:17,569 --> 00:55:16,380
event they'll see a lost loved one you

1516
00:55:19,549 --> 00:55:17,579
know just like you might see on a

1517
00:55:21,410 --> 00:55:19,559
near-death experience

1518
00:55:23,690 --> 00:55:21,420
so

1519
00:55:26,569 --> 00:55:23,700
I'm either there are obviously a lot of

1520
00:55:27,890 --> 00:55:26,579
links and I'm not an expert on it I have

1521
00:55:29,630 --> 00:55:27,900
I'm just that's something I'm really

1522
00:55:31,970 --> 00:55:29,640
interested in in developing and learning

1523
00:55:33,349 --> 00:55:31,980
more about is that that connection and I

1524
00:55:34,970 --> 00:55:33,359
think

1525
00:55:37,569 --> 00:55:34,980
um there are a lot of people exploring

1526
00:55:40,790 --> 00:55:37,579
that connection now

1527
00:55:42,770 --> 00:55:40,800
just by just by Lucky chance I had

1528
00:55:44,809 --> 00:55:42,780
Whitley Street Bar Jacques Valley and

1529
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:44,819
Jim simivan all guessed back to back

1530
00:55:47,809 --> 00:55:46,319
throughout October

1531
00:55:49,190 --> 00:55:47,819
um not because I planned it that way it

1532
00:55:50,990 --> 00:55:49,200
just happened to be the the way the

1533
00:55:52,370 --> 00:55:51,000
chips fell which was wonderful and

1534
00:55:55,190 --> 00:55:52,380
you're right they all share similar

1535
00:55:57,650 --> 00:55:55,200
stories or or theories or hypotheses

1536
00:55:59,150 --> 00:55:57,660
around that that Consciousness or

1537
00:56:01,069 --> 00:55:59,160
whatever that is to people because it's

1538
00:56:02,750 --> 00:56:01,079
different things to different people

1539
00:56:05,210 --> 00:56:02,760
and I wonder in those early

1540
00:56:07,849 --> 00:56:05,220
conversations you had with with sources

1541
00:56:09,349 --> 00:56:07,859
on or off the Record well I've had those

1542
00:56:12,470 --> 00:56:09,359
chats about you know you're talking

1543
00:56:14,630 --> 00:56:12,480
about UFOs that those kinds of ideas

1544
00:56:16,609 --> 00:56:14,640
come into the conversations or is that

1545
00:56:19,250 --> 00:56:16,619
something that maybe came much later or

1546
00:56:21,230 --> 00:56:19,260
more recently or if at all

1547
00:56:23,030 --> 00:56:21,240
I think for me I mean there was

1548
00:56:26,450 --> 00:56:23,040
certainly we certainly have discussed

1549
00:56:29,030 --> 00:56:26,460
like close encounter experiences where

1550
00:56:31,549 --> 00:56:29,040
people and experiences over the years

1551
00:56:33,290 --> 00:56:31,559
were people's Consciousness is affected

1552
00:56:35,150 --> 00:56:33,300
where things happen to them as a result

1553
00:56:38,690 --> 00:56:35,160
of an encounter you know

1554
00:56:41,390 --> 00:56:38,700
but um not so much beyond that I mean

1555
00:56:44,930 --> 00:56:41,400
not so much a link to after death

1556
00:56:48,710 --> 00:56:44,940
experience or near-death experience or

1557
00:56:50,750 --> 00:56:48,720
it was more just a link to Consciousness

1558
00:56:53,210 --> 00:56:50,760
um and the impact that a close encounter

1559
00:56:55,790 --> 00:56:53,220
can have on a person's mind and and

1560
00:56:57,410 --> 00:56:55,800
brain and you know and now we have Gary

1561
00:57:00,170 --> 00:56:57,420
Nolan who's actually studying the

1562
00:57:02,930 --> 00:57:00,180
physical parts of the brain you know to

1563
00:57:04,730 --> 00:57:02,940
see what happens in the brain with

1564
00:57:06,349 --> 00:57:04,740
people who have experiences and are very

1565
00:57:08,930 --> 00:57:06,359
high functioning people and a lot of

1566
00:57:11,569 --> 00:57:08,940
these people are extremely sensitive and

1567
00:57:13,309 --> 00:57:11,579
have all kinds of psychic abilities

1568
00:57:17,270 --> 00:57:13,319
so

1569
00:57:20,150 --> 00:57:17,280
conversations I would have with with

1570
00:57:22,970 --> 00:57:20,160
people over the years but um

1571
00:57:25,430 --> 00:57:22,980
and certainly I I have learned a lot

1572
00:57:27,230 --> 00:57:25,440
about close encounter cases or I sort of

1573
00:57:29,270 --> 00:57:27,240
hate the word abduction but that's sort

1574
00:57:30,829 --> 00:57:29,280
of what they've been called I was very

1575
00:57:32,870 --> 00:57:30,839
good friends with Bud Hopkins and I

1576
00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:32,880
learned a lot about the cases he studied

1577
00:57:38,750 --> 00:57:35,460
so I've always been fascinated by it but

1578
00:57:40,970 --> 00:57:38,760
I haven't really made the leap until

1579
00:57:43,069 --> 00:57:40,980
fairly recently of connecting that to

1580
00:57:44,870 --> 00:57:43,079
anything to do with a kind of an

1581
00:57:47,569 --> 00:57:44,880
afterlife realm I think we're talking

1582
00:57:50,750 --> 00:57:47,579
about some dimension of reality

1583
00:57:53,150 --> 00:57:50,760
that bleeds between the two you know

1584
00:57:55,730 --> 00:57:53,160
a very simplistic way of looking at it

1585
00:57:57,470 --> 00:57:55,740
but some kind of other dimension that we

1586
00:57:59,690 --> 00:57:57,480
we really can't proceed with our normal

1587
00:58:02,450 --> 00:57:59,700
senses but sometimes we get a glimpse of

1588
00:58:06,710 --> 00:58:02,460
it or something happens to take us there

1589
00:58:08,210 --> 00:58:06,720
and then it can have a permanent effect

1590
00:58:10,370 --> 00:58:08,220
um and we don't know maybe it's

1591
00:58:12,710 --> 00:58:10,380
something right around us all the time

1592
00:58:14,450 --> 00:58:12,720
that we just not equipped biologically

1593
00:58:16,490 --> 00:58:14,460
to perceive

1594
00:58:19,609 --> 00:58:16,500
I mean there's just I'm just aware of

1595
00:58:20,329 --> 00:58:19,619
how much we don't know about reality you

1596
00:58:21,410 --> 00:58:20,339
know

1597
00:58:24,049 --> 00:58:21,420
um

1598
00:58:25,790 --> 00:58:24,059
so the more yeah it really is true I

1599
00:58:27,049 --> 00:58:25,800
know it's a cliche but it's really true

1600
00:58:28,910 --> 00:58:27,059
that the more you learn the more

1601
00:58:31,370 --> 00:58:28,920
questions there are

1602
00:58:33,530 --> 00:58:31,380
absolutely just just in two years doing

1603
00:58:34,849 --> 00:58:33,540
this podcast I've changed my mind and I

1604
00:58:37,190 --> 00:58:34,859
think it's always important to have a

1605
00:58:39,650 --> 00:58:37,200
fluid opinion on these kinds of topics I

1606
00:58:41,690 --> 00:58:39,660
wonder in your research like you say

1607
00:58:43,970 --> 00:58:41,700
with the life after death being

1608
00:58:45,470 --> 00:58:43,980
relatively new UFO has been a lot longer

1609
00:58:48,170 --> 00:58:45,480
for you

1610
00:58:50,510 --> 00:58:48,180
if you could if you had to bet or put

1611
00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:50,520
money or wager on

1612
00:58:54,829 --> 00:58:53,280
definitive proof of an afterlife or

1613
00:58:56,690 --> 00:58:54,839
definitive proof of a non-human

1614
00:58:59,150 --> 00:58:56,700
intelligence intelligence visiting the

1615
00:59:01,309 --> 00:58:59,160
Earth what would be first

1616
00:59:03,049 --> 00:59:01,319
the latter definitely I think we've

1617
00:59:05,690 --> 00:59:03,059
already pretty much got the non-human

1618
00:59:07,609 --> 00:59:05,700
intelligence proof you know

1619
00:59:10,430 --> 00:59:07,619
um it's much easier to nail that down

1620
00:59:12,049 --> 00:59:10,440
than it is to nail down survival past

1621
00:59:16,609 --> 00:59:12,059
death I mean there's a lot of very

1622
00:59:18,410 --> 00:59:16,619
provocative and suggestive evidence

1623
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:18,420
um things that are very hard to explain

1624
00:59:23,450 --> 00:59:21,359
in any other way but it's not like you

1625
00:59:25,609 --> 00:59:23,460
have this solid object that you can

1626
00:59:28,750 --> 00:59:25,619
document like you can with the UFO right

1627
00:59:31,370 --> 00:59:28,760
yeah it's just and have have military

1628
00:59:33,470 --> 00:59:31,380
militaries that collect case data and

1629
00:59:34,910 --> 00:59:33,480
government agencies and you know 70

1630
00:59:38,329 --> 00:59:34,920
years of

1631
00:59:40,130 --> 00:59:38,339
of investigation and classified programs

1632
00:59:43,069 --> 00:59:40,140
you just don't have all that you just

1633
00:59:46,069 --> 00:59:43,079
basically have some very very high level

1634
00:59:48,530 --> 00:59:46,079
investigators but not nearly as many and

1635
00:59:50,210 --> 00:59:48,540
you have people who've had experiences

1636
00:59:52,250 --> 00:59:50,220
that they can talk about and you can

1637
00:59:53,569 --> 00:59:52,260
look at the similarities between a lot

1638
00:59:54,890 --> 00:59:53,579
of different experiences that people

1639
00:59:57,170 --> 00:59:54,900
have

1640
00:59:58,730 --> 00:59:57,180
so it's much harder to and that's one

1641
01:00:01,010 --> 00:59:58,740
reason why I found this book much more

1642
01:00:04,609 --> 01:00:01,020
difficult to write than UFOs way more

1643
01:00:08,630 --> 01:00:04,619
difficult because the material itself

1644
01:00:11,390 --> 01:00:08,640
is not as easy to you know to to just

1645
01:00:14,630 --> 01:00:11,400
nail down it's it's more nebulous it's

1646
01:00:16,670 --> 01:00:14,640
it's more um you know take it involves

1647
01:00:19,490 --> 01:00:16,680
your imagination and ex personal

1648
01:00:22,370 --> 01:00:19,500
experience and

1649
01:00:24,710 --> 01:00:22,380
um it's just as a journalist it's just

1650
01:00:26,089 --> 01:00:24,720
not as journalistic you know even though

1651
01:00:28,309 --> 01:00:26,099
I tried to write a book that was as

1652
01:00:30,950 --> 01:00:28,319
journalistic as it could possibly be

1653
01:00:32,630 --> 01:00:30,960
on this particular subject and there is

1654
01:00:34,670 --> 01:00:32,640
a lot of great research that's been done

1655
01:00:37,730 --> 01:00:34,680
so the book kind of includes the

1656
01:00:39,589 --> 01:00:37,740
research and the personal stories but

1657
01:00:41,510 --> 01:00:39,599
it's it I don't I just can't imagine

1658
01:00:44,930 --> 01:00:41,520
we're going to have proof

1659
01:00:47,030 --> 01:00:44,940
probably ever really hardcore proof

1660
01:00:49,250 --> 01:00:47,040
although some people have had enough

1661
01:00:51,829 --> 01:00:49,260
experience to think that we do that they

1662
01:00:53,750 --> 01:00:51,839
have proved that they do have proof yep

1663
01:00:55,190 --> 01:00:53,760
you know it's very subjective I mean if

1664
01:00:56,870 --> 01:00:55,200
you have a certain level of experience

1665
01:00:58,849 --> 01:00:56,880
and you have a near-death experience

1666
01:01:00,170 --> 01:00:58,859
you're absolutely convinced that you

1667
01:01:01,910 --> 01:01:00,180
have proof

1668
01:01:04,910 --> 01:01:01,920
but it's not something that you can

1669
01:01:07,430 --> 01:01:04,920
prove to anyone but yourself

1670
01:01:10,309 --> 01:01:07,440
that's that's the thing there sometimes

1671
01:01:13,130 --> 01:01:10,319
seems to be that overlapping in the two

1672
01:01:14,690 --> 01:01:13,140
and all Chris Christopher bled so had a

1673
01:01:17,329 --> 01:01:14,700
near-death experience when he was much

1674
01:01:19,130 --> 01:01:17,339
younger which afterwards opened up what

1675
01:01:20,930 --> 01:01:19,140
would appear to be a whole range of of

1676
01:01:23,329 --> 01:01:20,940
other worldly phenomena throughout the

1677
01:01:25,130 --> 01:01:23,339
rest of his life Whitley steuber and

1678
01:01:28,190 --> 01:01:25,140
others have an experience and I wonder

1679
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:28,200
does this do these original experiences

1680
01:01:33,530 --> 01:01:30,720
or initial experiences crack open a door

1681
01:01:35,329 --> 01:01:33,540
which never quite closes and you

1682
01:01:37,309 --> 01:01:35,339
mentioned that other dimension yeah that

1683
01:01:39,170 --> 01:01:37,319
it's just there and you've always then

1684
01:01:40,789 --> 01:01:39,180
got that little bit of an exposure to it

1685
01:01:44,450 --> 01:01:40,799
that just now and again bleeds through

1686
01:01:46,430 --> 01:01:44,460
to a more a more solid experience

1687
01:01:47,870 --> 01:01:46,440
it just seemed that way I mean it's a

1688
01:01:49,730 --> 01:01:47,880
it's a great question you probably know

1689
01:01:50,870 --> 01:01:49,740
the answer as well as I do you know it

1690
01:01:52,609 --> 01:01:50,880
does seem them that's what we were

1691
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:52,619
saying earlier about Consciousness being

1692
01:01:56,089 --> 01:01:54,960
affected so he has a near-death

1693
01:01:59,390 --> 01:01:56,099
experience

1694
01:02:01,190 --> 01:01:59,400
and then it opens up all these portals

1695
01:02:02,210 --> 01:02:01,200
of doors in his Consciousness to all

1696
01:02:03,890 --> 01:02:02,220
kinds of other things that happened

1697
01:02:06,530 --> 01:02:03,900
throughout his life

1698
01:02:09,530 --> 01:02:06,540
and some of that I think involves UFO

1699
01:02:13,010 --> 01:02:09,540
type experiences I mean and UFO

1700
01:02:15,289 --> 01:02:13,020
experiences and that also can be the

1701
01:02:17,030 --> 01:02:15,299
definition of what they are I feel like

1702
01:02:19,609 --> 01:02:17,040
has become much broader now that we're

1703
01:02:22,130 --> 01:02:19,619
thinking of UAP right yep we're not

1704
01:02:23,510 --> 01:02:22,140
thinking of just some physical object in

1705
01:02:25,250 --> 01:02:23,520
the sky but we're thinking of a much

1706
01:02:27,890 --> 01:02:25,260
broader range of experience like if you

1707
01:02:30,890 --> 01:02:27,900
think about the orbs that are documented

1708
01:02:32,450 --> 01:02:30,900
in the Pentagon that the skinwalkers

1709
01:02:34,309 --> 01:02:32,460
book skin workers at the Pentagon I

1710
01:02:36,470 --> 01:02:34,319
think it's called yep I don't know the

1711
01:02:38,809 --> 01:02:36,480
more recently yeah I mean you know these

1712
01:02:41,809 --> 01:02:38,819
cases of orbs

1713
01:02:44,030 --> 01:02:41,819
I mean it's not like when I was working

1714
01:02:45,670 --> 01:02:44,040
on my book in 2010 that I would have

1715
01:02:48,650 --> 01:02:45,680
considered a

1716
01:02:51,650 --> 01:02:48,660
baseball-sized orb as really being a UFO

1717
01:02:53,630 --> 01:02:51,660
you know it was something else and now

1718
01:02:56,210 --> 01:02:53,640
it's like it's all kind of in one

1719
01:02:58,730 --> 01:02:56,220
Universe all the you know unidentified

1720
01:03:01,190 --> 01:02:58,740
aerial phenomena means a broad range of

1721
01:03:03,650 --> 01:03:01,200
phenomena and you can't necessarily

1722
01:03:06,829 --> 01:03:03,660
pigeonhole it into any one type of thing

1723
01:03:08,990 --> 01:03:06,839
and I think part of that whole mix is

1724
01:03:10,609 --> 01:03:09,000
situations like you described where

1725
01:03:11,990 --> 01:03:10,619
somebody has a near-death experience and

1726
01:03:13,609 --> 01:03:12,000
then

1727
01:03:14,990 --> 01:03:13,619
they have all these abilities they

1728
01:03:17,210 --> 01:03:15,000
didn't have before and then they start

1729
01:03:18,530 --> 01:03:17,220
having having UFO encounters and they

1730
01:03:20,990 --> 01:03:18,540
have this other thing and that other

1731
01:03:22,970 --> 01:03:21,000
thing happens it's like the broad range

1732
01:03:25,490 --> 01:03:22,980
of anomalous experiences that people

1733
01:03:28,370 --> 01:03:25,500
have are all connected and one of the

1734
01:03:29,690 --> 01:03:28,380
people that's really core in writing

1735
01:03:32,630 --> 01:03:29,700
about that and talking about that is

1736
01:03:34,190 --> 01:03:32,640
Jeffrey kreypel from Rice University who

1737
01:03:36,410 --> 01:03:34,200
would be another great interview for you

1738
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:36,420
and he worked out a couple of weeks

1739
01:03:39,530 --> 01:03:37,440
hopefully yeah

1740
01:03:41,630 --> 01:03:39,540
yeah he's coming to the conference on

1741
01:03:42,650 --> 01:03:41,640
December 3rd and he he's just so

1742
01:03:46,430 --> 01:03:42,660
brilliant

1743
01:03:48,530 --> 01:03:46,440
at uh tying together all the anomalous

1744
01:03:51,170 --> 01:03:48,540
what we call anomalous experiences that

1745
01:03:53,030 --> 01:03:51,180
people have all the time all different

1746
01:03:55,309 --> 01:03:53,040
types of experiences

1747
01:03:57,349 --> 01:03:55,319
that need to be recognized as really

1748
01:03:59,210 --> 01:03:57,359
part of who we are as human beings and

1749
01:04:01,190 --> 01:03:59,220
we've just kind of been in denial about

1750
01:04:03,170 --> 01:04:01,200
them but really they're they're a

1751
01:04:05,569 --> 01:04:03,180
natural part of Who We Are

1752
01:04:07,670 --> 01:04:05,579
and whether that be UFOs or near death

1753
01:04:10,069 --> 01:04:07,680
or having precognitive dreams or

1754
01:04:12,049 --> 01:04:10,079
near-death experiences or whatever

1755
01:04:13,730 --> 01:04:12,059
you know it's a matter of just sort of

1756
01:04:16,730 --> 01:04:13,740
seeing the human being in a different

1757
01:04:19,490 --> 01:04:16,740
way than we have in the past and that's

1758
01:04:21,289 --> 01:04:19,500
how Jeffrey looks at it and he

1759
01:04:22,849 --> 01:04:21,299
also looks at it he also is very it's

1760
01:04:24,890 --> 01:04:22,859
just he's a religious scholar so he can

1761
01:04:26,930 --> 01:04:24,900
go back through history and see

1762
01:04:28,549 --> 01:04:26,940
how these experience have been reported

1763
01:04:29,650 --> 01:04:28,559
throughout history and maybe they're

1764
01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:29,660
just

1765
01:04:33,710 --> 01:04:31,920
reworded a little bit because of the

1766
01:04:35,510 --> 01:04:33,720
time that they have occurred but you can

1767
01:04:36,710 --> 01:04:35,520
sort of see this consistency that these

1768
01:04:38,809 --> 01:04:36,720
things have been happening to people

1769
01:04:40,130 --> 01:04:38,819
forever

1770
01:04:42,289 --> 01:04:40,140
um so

1771
01:04:45,170 --> 01:04:42,299
yeah I mean it's just

1772
01:04:47,630 --> 01:04:45,180
it's a matter of seeing I I so I feel

1773
01:04:49,490 --> 01:04:47,640
like I used to just see UFOs as where

1774
01:04:51,349 --> 01:04:49,500
there's this extraterrestrial hypothesis

1775
01:04:54,349 --> 01:04:51,359
that maybe these craft are coming from

1776
01:04:56,150 --> 01:04:54,359
somewhere else someplace and else in the

1777
01:04:57,230 --> 01:04:56,160
you know in our solar system or

1778
01:04:59,630 --> 01:04:57,240
something

1779
01:05:01,250 --> 01:04:59,640
so simplistic that's what they concluded

1780
01:05:02,930 --> 01:05:01,260
in the cometa report you know that's

1781
01:05:06,170 --> 01:05:02,940
what the a lot of the people concluded

1782
01:05:08,329 --> 01:05:06,180
in my book in 2010 but now I think we've

1783
01:05:11,270 --> 01:05:08,339
just expanded our whole perception of

1784
01:05:13,789 --> 01:05:11,280
what it means to have a UFO encounter

1785
01:05:15,530 --> 01:05:13,799
and um I don't think that that's I think

1786
01:05:18,410 --> 01:05:15,540
it's going to take a while before that

1787
01:05:21,650 --> 01:05:18,420
becomes integrated into

1788
01:05:23,150 --> 01:05:21,660
places like Congress and you know the

1789
01:05:24,650 --> 01:05:23,160
agency that studies this in the

1790
01:05:26,150 --> 01:05:24,660
Department of Defense and things like

1791
01:05:28,130 --> 01:05:26,160
that but

1792
01:05:29,750 --> 01:05:28,140
it is a big part of it and it's the S

1793
01:05:31,970 --> 01:05:29,760
it's really the essential element of

1794
01:05:33,410 --> 01:05:31,980
what these what it's all about and I

1795
01:05:35,390 --> 01:05:33,420
think over time it's just going to

1796
01:05:37,670 --> 01:05:35,400
become more and more it's got to become

1797
01:05:41,210 --> 01:05:37,680
more integrated into how we see it

1798
01:05:43,370 --> 01:05:41,220
it just takes time it's very strange to

1799
01:05:45,589 --> 01:05:43,380
think that extraterrestrial for many of

1800
01:05:47,210 --> 01:05:45,599
us would now be a bit of a mundane you

1801
01:05:49,069 --> 01:05:47,220
know ah they're just coming from

1802
01:05:51,829 --> 01:05:49,079
somewhere else not somewhere else or

1803
01:05:53,510 --> 01:05:51,839
some other dimension no well okay I

1804
01:05:56,569 --> 01:05:53,520
suppose that's interesting you know but

1805
01:05:58,789 --> 01:05:56,579
we'll get to that rest right yeah yes

1806
01:06:01,130 --> 01:05:58,799
that's that yeah um but that's what this

1807
01:06:02,809 --> 01:06:01,140
topic does to you um you've mentioned a

1808
01:06:04,069 --> 01:06:02,819
few times the conference I want to get

1809
01:06:06,470 --> 01:06:04,079
to that before but we mentioned some

1810
01:06:08,750 --> 01:06:06,480
listener questions so an inquiry into

1811
01:06:10,190 --> 01:06:08,760
anomalous experiences and the phenomenon

1812
01:06:12,170 --> 01:06:10,200
as an intimate conference series

1813
01:06:15,410 --> 01:06:12,180
continuing in the heart of New York City

1814
01:06:17,630 --> 01:06:15,420
Saturday December 3rd 2022 so in a

1815
01:06:19,549 --> 01:06:17,640
couple of weeks time uh James iandoli

1816
01:06:20,990 --> 01:06:19,559
and Jay Christopher King were both on

1817
01:06:23,030 --> 01:06:21,000
the podcast a few weeks ago talking

1818
01:06:24,289 --> 01:06:23,040
about the last conference that was a big

1819
01:06:25,970 --> 01:06:24,299
Smash Hit

1820
01:06:27,890 --> 01:06:25,980
um tickets are sold out for in person

1821
01:06:29,870 --> 01:06:27,900
for this upcoming conference but there

1822
01:06:31,730 --> 01:06:29,880
are still live stream tickets available

1823
01:06:34,069 --> 01:06:31,740
and they should also have the technology

1824
01:06:35,870 --> 01:06:34,079
to take listener questions from the live

1825
01:06:39,109 --> 01:06:35,880
stream as well so you can be interactive

1826
01:06:41,150 --> 01:06:39,119
with it or watch on the peaked and the

1827
01:06:42,890 --> 01:06:41,160
the lineup is phenomenal again so it's

1828
01:06:44,450 --> 01:06:42,900
hosted by James iandoli and J

1829
01:06:46,309 --> 01:06:44,460
Christopher King they'll be coming back

1830
01:06:48,230 --> 01:06:46,319
on next week to chat about it Kelly

1831
01:06:50,510 --> 01:06:48,240
Chase from the UFO Rabbit Hole podcast

1832
01:06:52,970 --> 01:06:50,520
is a host and Priscilla Stone from

1833
01:06:56,569 --> 01:06:52,980
Quantum witch Cafe as well all fantastic

1834
01:06:58,430 --> 01:06:56,579
lovely people uh Christopher melon is is

1835
01:07:00,289 --> 01:06:58,440
you know a very surprising addition

1836
01:07:02,390 --> 01:07:00,299
given Christopher melon doesn't give too

1837
01:07:04,670 --> 01:07:02,400
much of his time uh even to the big

1838
01:07:06,289 --> 01:07:04,680
mainstream organizations for interviews

1839
01:07:09,170 --> 01:07:06,299
so it's fantastic that he's going to be

1840
01:07:10,849 --> 01:07:09,180
there Leslie you are also there we've

1841
01:07:12,529 --> 01:07:10,859
discussed um I believe and you're

1842
01:07:15,410 --> 01:07:12,539
interviewing Christopher Milne is that

1843
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:15,420
your role within the the conference well

1844
01:07:20,510 --> 01:07:18,000
I'm gonna have my own time where I uh do

1845
01:07:21,650 --> 01:07:20,520
my own thing and then uh yes he is is

1846
01:07:24,289 --> 01:07:21,660
that is that something that's been

1847
01:07:25,430 --> 01:07:24,299
announced already yes that's that's been

1848
01:07:28,789 --> 01:07:25,440
online yeah

1849
01:07:30,410 --> 01:07:28,799
okay so he has asked me to kind of do a

1850
01:07:32,270 --> 01:07:30,420
dialogue with him that's just how he

1851
01:07:34,670 --> 01:07:32,280
wanted to structure his time

1852
01:07:37,549 --> 01:07:34,680
um he's very comfortable with that and

1853
01:07:39,829 --> 01:07:37,559
so it'll be like a q a that I'll I'll

1854
01:07:41,210 --> 01:07:39,839
interact with him for about half and

1855
01:07:43,010 --> 01:07:41,220
then there'll be a lot of time for

1856
01:07:44,329 --> 01:07:43,020
audience questions I think one other

1857
01:07:46,490 --> 01:07:44,339
thing that's going to be different about

1858
01:07:48,049 --> 01:07:46,500
this conference from the last one is

1859
01:07:50,270 --> 01:07:48,059
there's going to be a lot more time for

1860
01:07:51,890 --> 01:07:50,280
questions from the audience and as you

1861
01:07:54,470 --> 01:07:51,900
said that includes the live stream

1862
01:07:57,049 --> 01:07:54,480
people so

1863
01:08:00,230 --> 01:07:57,059
um I certainly intend for my time to

1864
01:08:02,210 --> 01:08:00,240
allow just to sit back and talk to the

1865
01:08:03,710 --> 01:08:02,220
audience and have a q a and a dialogue

1866
01:08:06,010 --> 01:08:03,720
and people can ask me questions that I

1867
01:08:08,329 --> 01:08:06,020
won't be able to answer

1868
01:08:10,370 --> 01:08:08,339
the Link's in the description for people

1869
01:08:12,230 --> 01:08:10,380
to buy tickets for that live stream but

1870
01:08:14,630 --> 01:08:12,240
all including uh Christopher melon and

1871
01:08:17,269 --> 01:08:14,640
Leslie Kane you have got Jeffrey

1872
01:08:19,249 --> 01:08:17,279
Ralph Blumenthal Sharon Hewitt Rowlett

1873
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:19,259
and Whitley strieber all there as well

1874
01:08:23,749 --> 01:08:21,359
so that's an incredible lineup there is

1875
01:08:25,990 --> 01:08:23,759
something for everyone but with the idea

1876
01:08:29,269 --> 01:08:26,000
that we've talked about you know UFOs

1877
01:08:30,890 --> 01:08:29,279
afterlife experiencers all of that

1878
01:08:32,450 --> 01:08:30,900
potentially being connected and I think

1879
01:08:35,329 --> 01:08:32,460
you've got a wonderful range of people

1880
01:08:36,769 --> 01:08:35,339
there and experiences themselves

1881
01:08:38,809 --> 01:08:36,779
um to have that kind of overall

1882
01:08:40,010 --> 01:08:38,819
conversation what what are you most

1883
01:08:41,570 --> 01:08:40,020
looking forward to Leslie about

1884
01:08:43,130 --> 01:08:41,580
attending and being part of this

1885
01:08:45,410 --> 01:08:43,140
conference

1886
01:08:46,970 --> 01:08:45,420
oh that's a hard thing to say I mean I'm

1887
01:08:48,829 --> 01:08:46,980
I'm really looking forward to all of it

1888
01:08:50,510 --> 01:08:48,839
and I'm looking forward to seeing how it

1889
01:08:52,610 --> 01:08:50,520
all interconnects because as you said

1890
01:08:54,769 --> 01:08:52,620
we've got people all the way from

1891
01:08:56,510 --> 01:08:54,779
Whitley strieber to Chris Mellon right I

1892
01:08:57,470 --> 01:08:56,520
mean opposite ends of the spectrum but

1893
01:09:00,890 --> 01:08:57,480
yet

1894
01:09:03,110 --> 01:09:00,900
there's a connection too and um

1895
01:09:06,110 --> 01:09:03,120
I just want to see how it all fits

1896
01:09:08,329 --> 01:09:06,120
together and how people respond to the

1897
01:09:10,749 --> 01:09:08,339
uh presentations and I just look forward

1898
01:09:13,610 --> 01:09:10,759
to interacting with everybody

1899
01:09:16,669 --> 01:09:13,620
uh and

1900
01:09:18,950 --> 01:09:16,679
yeah I just think the speakers every one

1901
01:09:21,410 --> 01:09:18,960
of them is going to be making amazing

1902
01:09:24,130 --> 01:09:21,420
presentation I mean um I'm leaving

1903
01:09:27,050 --> 01:09:24,140
myself out of that but everybody else

1904
01:09:29,030 --> 01:09:27,060
you know and um

1905
01:09:31,910 --> 01:09:29,040
yeah so I'm just looking forward to the

1906
01:09:33,829 --> 01:09:31,920
whole thing and I yeah I think the um I

1907
01:09:36,169 --> 01:09:33,839
the in-person conference is sold out but

1908
01:09:38,329 --> 01:09:36,179
there is a waiting list so if somebody

1909
01:09:39,709 --> 01:09:38,339
really wants to come in person I would

1910
01:09:41,990 --> 01:09:39,719
encourage them to get on that list

1911
01:09:43,669 --> 01:09:42,000
because there may be people that will

1912
01:09:46,010 --> 01:09:43,679
cancel they can't come for some reason

1913
01:09:47,269 --> 01:09:46,020
or there may be a few extra tickets at

1914
01:09:48,890 --> 01:09:47,279
the end that they'll have you know they

1915
01:09:51,229 --> 01:09:48,900
will be able to fit people in so just

1916
01:09:53,150 --> 01:09:51,239
don't give up on that if if you are

1917
01:09:54,650 --> 01:09:53,160
interested in it yeah I think one little

1918
01:09:56,150 --> 01:09:54,660
lessons got in touch with me a couple of

1919
01:09:58,550 --> 01:09:56,160
weeks ago when it was sold out and he

1920
01:10:00,169 --> 01:09:58,560
wanted to travel from LA to go and I

1921
01:10:01,669 --> 01:10:00,179
think he's got himself a ticket sorted

1922
01:10:05,330 --> 01:10:01,679
out so you know that's that's commitment

1923
01:10:07,430 --> 01:10:05,340
and I know Graham Randall and okay too

1924
01:10:10,010 --> 01:10:07,440
yeah people coming from Graham Randall

1925
01:10:11,689 --> 01:10:10,020
and Dan zerstrom both of this parish and

1926
01:10:13,070 --> 01:10:11,699
their own their own stuff as well and

1927
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:13,080
they're both traveling over so they'll

1928
01:10:15,950 --> 01:10:14,880
be looking to say hello to Israel Leslie

1929
01:10:18,470 --> 01:10:15,960
I'm sure

1930
01:10:21,050 --> 01:10:18,480
um and a few other listeners too

1931
01:10:22,850 --> 01:10:21,060
and Jay uh Project Unity is coming in

1932
01:10:24,229 --> 01:10:22,860
there were people that's conference from

1933
01:10:26,450 --> 01:10:24,239
all over the United States and people

1934
01:10:29,209 --> 01:10:26,460
from Chicago I remember yeah California

1935
01:10:31,189 --> 01:10:29,219
I mean I think this time even more so

1936
01:10:33,229 --> 01:10:31,199
it's just going to be there's going to

1937
01:10:35,090 --> 01:10:33,239
be a great energy in that room really

1938
01:10:37,430 --> 01:10:35,100
really people that really want to be

1939
01:10:39,530 --> 01:10:37,440
there and it'll be very interactive the

1940
01:10:42,110 --> 01:10:39,540
whole thing so I think it's good that

1941
01:10:43,610 --> 01:10:42,120
it's not a huge audience because it's a

1942
01:10:46,729 --> 01:10:43,620
more intimate experience for everybody

1943
01:10:48,590 --> 01:10:46,739
there yeah so and I I just take my hat

1944
01:10:50,450 --> 01:10:48,600
off to Jay and James they're doing such

1945
01:10:51,890 --> 01:10:50,460
a great job of organizing these Vents

1946
01:10:53,330 --> 01:10:51,900
and they're going to keep doing it we've

1947
01:10:54,830 --> 01:10:53,340
already working on another one that's

1948
01:10:57,470 --> 01:10:54,840
going to be in this you know coming up

1949
01:10:59,330 --> 01:10:57,480
in a few months so and I'm I'm really

1950
01:11:01,370 --> 01:10:59,340
happy to be able to help them with all

1951
01:11:02,570 --> 01:11:01,380
of it and I just think they're doing a

1952
01:11:04,490 --> 01:11:02,580
great job so

1953
01:11:07,910 --> 01:11:04,500
I told them

1954
01:11:09,590 --> 01:11:07,920
gave me a few months more notice I could

1955
01:11:11,330 --> 01:11:09,600
have attended so if we're if we're

1956
01:11:12,770 --> 01:11:11,340
looking at March April that would be

1957
01:11:15,350 --> 01:11:12,780
fantastic and maybe I could get myself

1958
01:11:17,270 --> 01:11:15,360
over for one as well so I hope you

1959
01:11:19,070 --> 01:11:17,280
continue yeah we're looking at April now

1960
01:11:20,750 --> 01:11:19,080
I mean I I don't I should leave it up to

1961
01:11:22,790 --> 01:11:20,760
them but we're looking at early April

1962
01:11:24,290 --> 01:11:22,800
for the next one my wife might be a bit

1963
01:11:26,149 --> 01:11:24,300
more understanding being left with three

1964
01:11:28,130 --> 01:11:26,159
young children for me to travel over to

1965
01:11:30,649 --> 01:11:28,140
New York for what reasons obviously yeah

1966
01:11:32,630 --> 01:11:30,659
I wouldn't enjoy myself yeah connected

1967
01:11:34,430 --> 01:11:32,640
on your taxes right yeah a bit

1968
01:11:35,450 --> 01:11:34,440
horrendous I'm sure yeah tax deductible

1969
01:11:36,770 --> 01:11:35,460
I'm sure

1970
01:11:38,090 --> 01:11:36,780
um but listen let's get to some lesson

1971
01:11:39,709 --> 01:11:38,100
our questions and the last of the time

1972
01:11:41,510 --> 01:11:39,719
that we have Leslie and thanks to

1973
01:11:43,250 --> 01:11:41,520
everyone who sent over something and if

1974
01:11:45,229 --> 01:11:43,260
you're not you don't have your question

1975
01:11:46,790 --> 01:11:45,239
read out here hopefully something's been

1976
01:11:48,350 --> 01:11:46,800
mentioned in the body of the interviewer

1977
01:11:51,050 --> 01:11:48,360
because Leslie's been been great with

1978
01:11:53,090 --> 01:11:51,060
our time and first up from Newman Newman

1979
01:11:55,189 --> 01:11:53,100
asks where does Leslie see the

1980
01:11:57,649 --> 01:11:55,199
disclosure debate outside of the US

1981
01:12:00,110 --> 01:11:57,659
could a potential adversary such as

1982
01:12:02,390 --> 01:12:00,120
China or Russia have incentives and

1983
01:12:05,209 --> 01:12:02,400
capabilities to scoop the US by taking

1984
01:12:08,030 --> 01:12:05,219
the lead in the conversation

1985
01:12:10,010 --> 01:12:08,040
yeah what a great question I mean it's

1986
01:12:12,830 --> 01:12:10,020
something I think about I I can't say

1987
01:12:13,729 --> 01:12:12,840
that I know the answer to that question

1988
01:12:19,010 --> 01:12:13,739
um

1989
01:12:21,770 --> 01:12:19,020
the United States would not want that to

1990
01:12:23,390 --> 01:12:21,780
happen because we don't want one of our

1991
01:12:25,370 --> 01:12:23,400
adversaries to take control of the

1992
01:12:27,709 --> 01:12:25,380
narrative and kind of

1993
01:12:29,270 --> 01:12:27,719
take the lead on this we also of course

1994
01:12:31,850 --> 01:12:29,280
don't want them to have the technology

1995
01:12:33,590 --> 01:12:31,860
if they you know there's that's why one

1996
01:12:35,750 --> 01:12:33,600
reason why we keep it secret because we

1997
01:12:38,390 --> 01:12:35,760
don't want our enemies to develop this

1998
01:12:40,430 --> 01:12:38,400
technology ahead of us so

1999
01:12:41,689 --> 01:12:40,440
it's something it's a really interesting

2000
01:12:44,209 --> 01:12:41,699
question you know what if one of those

2001
01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:44,219
other countries just announced

2002
01:12:47,930 --> 01:12:46,080
uh

2003
01:12:49,790 --> 01:12:47,940
but

2004
01:12:52,610 --> 01:12:49,800
I just don't somehow don't think anyone

2005
01:12:54,169 --> 01:12:52,620
really wants to announce it but I I

2006
01:12:57,229 --> 01:12:54,179
really can't offer any insight I mean

2007
01:12:58,910 --> 01:12:57,239
it's a fascinating question that is on a

2008
01:13:00,350 --> 01:12:58,920
lot of people's minds I'm sure and I I

2009
01:13:01,970 --> 01:13:00,360
just I don't know how it's going to play

2010
01:13:04,070 --> 01:13:01,980
out but it's always a possibility

2011
01:13:05,510 --> 01:13:04,080
something like that could happen I can't

2012
01:13:07,729 --> 01:13:05,520
rule it out

2013
01:13:09,709 --> 01:13:07,739
another follow-up from Newman he asks

2014
01:13:11,390 --> 01:13:09,719
bear in mind we talked about uh Julian

2015
01:13:13,189 --> 01:13:11,400
Barnes article and how it was opposite

2016
01:13:15,169 --> 01:13:13,199
sides of the spectrum from your own work

2017
01:13:17,149 --> 01:13:15,179
with Beth Ralph and Helene

2018
01:13:19,310 --> 01:13:17,159
um what's your stance on the more

2019
01:13:20,750 --> 01:13:19,320
Sensational reporting occasionally that

2020
01:13:23,390 --> 01:13:20,760
has occurred over the last couple of

2021
01:13:26,149 --> 01:13:23,400
years for example he gives Roscoe tax

2022
01:13:28,189 --> 01:13:26,159
alien metal balls weighing 10 pounds and

2023
01:13:30,590 --> 01:13:28,199
coming across potentially as more

2024
01:13:32,750 --> 01:13:30,600
Ancient Aliens as his wording the way

2025
01:13:35,270 --> 01:13:32,760
it's that's kind of set up do you think

2026
01:13:38,149 --> 01:13:35,280
those kind of texts on the UFO subject

2027
01:13:40,010 --> 01:13:38,159
do more harm than good or are they good

2028
01:13:41,750 --> 01:13:40,020
for raising awareness

2029
01:13:43,310 --> 01:13:41,760
I think they're great I mean I think the

2030
01:13:45,350 --> 01:13:43,320
work that Ross does is absolutely

2031
01:13:46,970 --> 01:13:45,360
wonderful and I think that the sphere

2032
01:13:49,330 --> 01:13:46,980
he's talking about the one he presented

2033
01:13:52,729 --> 01:13:49,340
on his his documentary right yeah

2034
01:13:55,130 --> 01:13:52,739
I mean there are there are more excuse

2035
01:13:57,890 --> 01:13:55,140
me there are more spheres than that one

2036
01:14:00,890 --> 01:13:57,900
yeah the real thing and there are people

2037
01:14:03,470 --> 01:14:00,900
looking into that and studying it and uh

2038
01:14:06,410 --> 01:14:03,480
I think that Ross coolheart is a

2039
01:14:09,290 --> 01:14:06,420
fantastic reporter and I would never you

2040
01:14:13,189 --> 01:14:09,300
know I mean the difference is that he he

2041
01:14:14,990 --> 01:14:13,199
has more leeway than than I do writing

2042
01:14:18,350 --> 01:14:15,000
for the New York Times right if he does

2043
01:14:20,810 --> 01:14:18,360
a show on channel 7 in Australia he has

2044
01:14:22,250 --> 01:14:20,820
a lot more leeway to to present certain

2045
01:14:25,130 --> 01:14:22,260
topics

2046
01:14:27,470 --> 01:14:25,140
uh that that I can't do in the New York

2047
01:14:29,810 --> 01:14:27,480
Times you know any so in a way I kind of

2048
01:14:32,450 --> 01:14:29,820
Envy the freedom that he has to explore

2049
01:14:34,910 --> 01:14:32,460
some of these other things that may not

2050
01:14:36,290 --> 01:14:34,920
be a hundred percent documented or maybe

2051
01:14:38,810 --> 01:14:36,300
a little more

2052
01:14:40,310 --> 01:14:38,820
you know uncertain but are absolutely

2053
01:14:42,649 --> 01:14:40,320
fascinating

2054
01:14:45,229 --> 01:14:42,659
so I think there's absolutely we need

2055
01:14:46,490 --> 01:14:45,239
that kind of reporting I mean I I feel

2056
01:14:48,169 --> 01:14:46,500
like

2057
01:14:50,330 --> 01:14:48,179
because I'm sort of

2058
01:14:51,890 --> 01:14:50,340
keeping myself with the hopes of

2059
01:14:55,130 --> 01:14:51,900
contributing more to the New York Times

2060
01:14:58,970 --> 01:14:55,140
it limits what I can do greatly

2061
01:15:01,310 --> 01:14:58,980
so I think that so I have no issues with

2062
01:15:02,930 --> 01:15:01,320
I think Ross and and Bryce both do a

2063
01:15:04,850 --> 01:15:02,940
great job I have great respect for them

2064
01:15:06,470 --> 01:15:04,860
yeah I was going to mention Bryce on

2065
01:15:09,350 --> 01:15:06,480
that as well Bryce Abel who obviously is

2066
01:15:10,850 --> 01:15:09,360
Ross's partnered or need to know they

2067
01:15:13,430 --> 01:15:10,860
are showing podcasts and works with them

2068
01:15:16,189 --> 01:15:13,440
and those documentaries as well

2069
01:15:18,470 --> 01:15:16,199
um next question from David through your

2070
01:15:20,630 --> 01:15:18,480
channels in various contacts are you

2071
01:15:22,250 --> 01:15:20,640
aware of any members of Congress who

2072
01:15:24,830 --> 01:15:22,260
have been politically pressured or

2073
01:15:26,870 --> 01:15:24,840
otherwise dissuaded from pursuing the

2074
01:15:29,149 --> 01:15:26,880
kind of soft disclosure we are watching

2075
01:15:32,209 --> 01:15:29,159
unravel now

2076
01:15:34,669 --> 01:15:32,219
I can't say specifically but I I know

2077
01:15:36,950 --> 01:15:34,679
that there are there's a lot of

2078
01:15:39,169 --> 01:15:36,960
conflict about it I mean there are some

2079
01:15:41,030 --> 01:15:39,179
that don't want it to happen

2080
01:15:44,630 --> 01:15:41,040
um and I know that um

2081
01:15:46,070 --> 01:15:44,640
uh Senator burchett Tim burchett from

2082
01:15:48,470 --> 01:15:46,080
Tennessee Congressman I'm sorry

2083
01:15:50,870 --> 01:15:48,480
representative yeah from Tennessee just

2084
01:15:53,209 --> 01:15:50,880
recently said I think it was in the

2085
01:15:55,010 --> 01:15:53,219
interview with Jay Project Unity that um

2086
01:15:57,470 --> 01:15:55,020
and he said these things before that he

2087
01:16:00,169 --> 01:15:57,480
feels like the members of Congress are

2088
01:16:03,470 --> 01:16:00,179
he's the word compromised in terms of

2089
01:16:05,350 --> 01:16:03,480
their ability to really carry this

2090
01:16:08,149 --> 01:16:05,360
through and

2091
01:16:09,830 --> 01:16:08,159
uh he didn't go into much detail about

2092
01:16:11,810 --> 01:16:09,840
what he meant

2093
01:16:13,790 --> 01:16:11,820
but obviously there are things going on

2094
01:16:16,790 --> 01:16:13,800
behind the scenes that there I'm sure

2095
01:16:18,709 --> 01:16:16,800
there are attempts to pull back this

2096
01:16:20,750 --> 01:16:18,719
process and

2097
01:16:22,610 --> 01:16:20,760
uh you know I can't talk about any

2098
01:16:25,250 --> 01:16:22,620
specific events but

2099
01:16:26,689 --> 01:16:25,260
it's it's not like it's a slam dunk that

2100
01:16:28,370 --> 01:16:26,699
this is all gonna we're gonna get these

2101
01:16:29,750 --> 01:16:28,380
whistleblowers and it's all gonna happen

2102
01:16:32,209 --> 01:16:29,760
and we're going to be given all this

2103
01:16:35,510 --> 01:16:32,219
great information and

2104
01:16:38,090 --> 01:16:35,520
you know it's it's it's uh

2105
01:16:40,070 --> 01:16:38,100
so I I I think it's way more complicated

2106
01:16:42,530 --> 01:16:40,080
and I'm sure there's a lot of pushback

2107
01:16:45,229 --> 01:16:42,540
against members of Congress that are

2108
01:16:47,390 --> 01:16:45,239
leading the charge here absolutely

2109
01:16:49,490 --> 01:16:47,400
I get the feeling that some people

2110
01:16:51,470 --> 01:16:49,500
expect it to be two steps forward one

2111
01:16:53,930 --> 01:16:51,480
step back but I think we could still see

2112
01:16:55,850 --> 01:16:53,940
three tips three steps back one to the

2113
01:16:57,470 --> 01:16:55,860
side two steps forward

2114
01:17:00,229 --> 01:16:57,480
yeah it could be a bit of a

2115
01:17:02,630 --> 01:17:00,239
merry-go-round but it's it's like it's

2116
01:17:05,990 --> 01:17:02,640
going to be interesting along the way

2117
01:17:08,090 --> 01:17:06,000
um very very question from Gregory asks

2118
01:17:10,790 --> 01:17:08,100
has there ever been any reports you have

2119
01:17:13,370 --> 01:17:10,800
heard of Leslie of a UFO saving or

2120
01:17:16,669 --> 01:17:13,380
rescuing a person someone lost at sea or

2121
01:17:21,169 --> 01:17:18,649
you mean actually picking them up in a

2122
01:17:22,550 --> 01:17:21,179
craft and taking them to safety yeah I'm

2123
01:17:23,750 --> 01:17:22,560
guessing that's what they're going with

2124
01:17:26,149 --> 01:17:23,760
here yeah they don't say that

2125
01:17:28,490 --> 01:17:26,159
specifically but

2126
01:17:29,810 --> 01:17:28,500
I can't say but that doesn't mean that

2127
01:17:31,030 --> 01:17:29,820
there aren't

2128
01:17:33,890 --> 01:17:31,040
you know

2129
01:17:36,590 --> 01:17:33,900
experiencers who have reported stories

2130
01:17:38,870 --> 01:17:36,600
like that I mean I I there could be the

2131
01:17:41,330 --> 01:17:38,880
ones that I haven't read you know

2132
01:17:43,970 --> 01:17:41,340
I can't think of any that I'm familiar

2133
01:17:45,310 --> 01:17:43,980
with of somebody being actually rescued

2134
01:17:48,350 --> 01:17:45,320
um

2135
01:17:50,810 --> 01:17:48,360
so but I'm not aware of every single

2136
01:17:52,370 --> 01:17:50,820
case that's out there you know it made

2137
01:17:54,410 --> 01:17:52,380
me think of the very first person

2138
01:17:56,330 --> 01:17:54,420
interviewed on Surviving death on

2139
01:17:58,310 --> 01:17:56,340
Netflix is the canoeist who was stuck

2140
01:18:00,890 --> 01:17:58,320
upside down and basically for 15 minutes

2141
01:18:02,030 --> 01:18:00,900
underwater and she certainly could have

2142
01:18:03,709 --> 01:18:02,040
used something like that at the time

2143
01:18:06,649 --> 01:18:03,719
because that was an incredible story

2144
01:18:08,330 --> 01:18:06,659
like that was yeah horrible amazing to

2145
01:18:10,790 --> 01:18:08,340
think yeah just be drowning and been

2146
01:18:12,410 --> 01:18:10,800
underwater but well yeah but anyway yeah

2147
01:18:14,270 --> 01:18:12,420
so yeah no reports of that which but

2148
01:18:15,770 --> 01:18:14,280
thanks for the question Gregory a

2149
01:18:17,330 --> 01:18:15,780
question from Keith and this one might

2150
01:18:19,970 --> 01:18:17,340
be a little bit more controversial for

2151
01:18:21,350 --> 01:18:19,980
some um but it's I understand the the

2152
01:18:23,510 --> 01:18:21,360
question

2153
01:18:25,250 --> 01:18:23,520
um he says now the dust has settled some

2154
01:18:27,709 --> 01:18:25,260
people question the details of their

2155
01:18:30,410 --> 01:18:27,719
original 2017 article and the claims

2156
01:18:32,270 --> 01:18:30,420
specifically of Louise Elizondo and

2157
01:18:35,090 --> 01:18:32,280
claiming that atip was more of a hobby

2158
01:18:37,430 --> 01:18:35,100
and OSAP was the real program and this

2159
01:18:40,669 --> 01:18:37,440
somehow delegitimizes Louise Elizondo

2160
01:18:42,590 --> 01:18:40,679
can you win on your opinion of Luis his

2161
01:18:44,750 --> 01:18:42,600
claims and the reasons for any of those

2162
01:18:48,530 --> 01:18:44,760
discrepancies

2163
01:18:50,750 --> 01:18:48,540
I mean I as we wrote and we stand by our

2164
01:18:54,050 --> 01:18:50,760
reporting in that first article and I

2165
01:18:55,610 --> 01:18:54,060
stand by Lou I think I have no I have

2166
01:18:58,189 --> 01:18:55,620
absolute

2167
01:18:59,750 --> 01:18:58,199
proof documentation and reports of

2168
01:19:01,850 --> 01:18:59,760
people from the program that Lou

2169
01:19:05,149 --> 01:19:01,860
elizando did head up the atip program

2170
01:19:06,169 --> 01:19:05,159
yep it was a small program but it

2171
01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:06,179
existed

2172
01:19:12,410 --> 01:19:09,120
you know at the time he he resigned it

2173
01:19:15,590 --> 01:19:12,420
was in play and it um

2174
01:19:19,430 --> 01:19:15,600
and I I do not

2175
01:19:21,410 --> 01:19:19,440
you know I I stand by Lou I I trust Lou

2176
01:19:23,270 --> 01:19:21,420
and I I think he's done he's made an

2177
01:19:25,850 --> 01:19:23,280
amazing contribution by coming forward

2178
01:19:26,810 --> 01:19:25,860
and doing all that he has done for all

2179
01:19:29,870 --> 01:19:26,820
of us

2180
01:19:31,910 --> 01:19:29,880
and I'm not interested in focusing on

2181
01:19:34,310 --> 01:19:31,920
you know these

2182
01:19:36,530 --> 01:19:34,320
criticisms of him I don't think I'm just

2183
01:19:38,149 --> 01:19:36,540
I don't support it yeah I think what

2184
01:19:40,310 --> 01:19:38,159
some people get at and I've said on the

2185
01:19:42,649 --> 01:19:40,320
podcast before like John Grimaldi

2186
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:42,659
interviewed a few months ago I I said I

2187
01:19:47,570 --> 01:19:44,880
get why people pick up on discrepancies

2188
01:19:50,090 --> 01:19:47,580
but it seems to me like if I go to a

2189
01:19:51,830 --> 01:19:50,100
football match and I'm recalling the

2190
01:19:53,870 --> 01:19:51,840
details of being at the match and I say

2191
01:19:55,370 --> 01:19:53,880
I was wearing a brown T-shirt actually I

2192
01:19:56,570 --> 01:19:55,380
was wearing a white T-shirt it doesn't

2193
01:19:58,010 --> 01:19:56,580
mean I wasn't at the football game

2194
01:20:00,050 --> 01:19:58,020
there's just been a small detail

2195
01:20:02,330 --> 01:20:00,060
misremembered and people can jump all

2196
01:20:05,330 --> 01:20:02,340
over those kinds of things especially in

2197
01:20:07,490 --> 01:20:05,340
the UFO conversation around dates and

2198
01:20:09,229 --> 01:20:07,500
what officially when a program started

2199
01:20:11,450 --> 01:20:09,239
when a program officially ended because

2200
01:20:12,890 --> 01:20:11,460
those are details that we really are

2201
01:20:15,110 --> 01:20:12,900
privy to anyway

2202
01:20:16,370 --> 01:20:15,120
let alone get in the exact details on

2203
01:20:19,430 --> 01:20:16,380
them

2204
01:20:21,050 --> 01:20:19,440
yeah I mean you know I just think it's I

2205
01:20:23,510 --> 01:20:21,060
don't go on the two I'm not in the

2206
01:20:26,270 --> 01:20:23,520
Twitter world so I don't I'm not privy

2207
01:20:28,250 --> 01:20:26,280
to all okay yeah it goes on I just it's

2208
01:20:30,290 --> 01:20:28,260
completely stay away from it but I I

2209
01:20:34,250 --> 01:20:30,300
just don't understand why the hyper

2210
01:20:36,229 --> 01:20:34,260
focus on detail like that to to be

2211
01:20:38,450 --> 01:20:36,239
critical of somebody who's made such a

2212
01:20:39,729 --> 01:20:38,460
huge contribution I mean I don't I'm

2213
01:20:42,050 --> 01:20:39,739
just

2214
01:20:43,370 --> 01:20:42,060
that's not how I want to spend my time

2215
01:20:45,649 --> 01:20:43,380
is trying to

2216
01:20:46,790 --> 01:20:45,659
understand what's going on there I just

2217
01:20:48,470 --> 01:20:46,800
stay away from

2218
01:20:49,910 --> 01:20:48,480
you know what there's a lot of good

2219
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:49,920
people there's a lot of good people on

2220
01:20:54,470 --> 01:20:52,320
Twitter but I can see also why it's

2221
01:20:56,630 --> 01:20:54,480
driven away people like Lou from the

2222
01:20:58,850 --> 01:20:56,640
platform because it just and he always

2223
01:21:00,530 --> 01:20:58,860
said question him you know question the

2224
01:21:02,330 --> 01:21:00,540
data question everything around us

2225
01:21:04,070 --> 01:21:02,340
because that's what you should do but

2226
01:21:06,590 --> 01:21:04,080
like you see I think the hyper critical

2227
01:21:08,090 --> 01:21:06,600
nature of some some things just got too

2228
01:21:10,310 --> 01:21:08,100
much for people and I don't blame them

2229
01:21:12,350 --> 01:21:10,320
for for going away as he did

2230
01:21:13,850 --> 01:21:12,360
um so yeah that was unfortunate people

2231
01:21:16,250 --> 01:21:13,860
don't I think appreciate what they've

2232
01:21:17,689 --> 01:21:16,260
got until it's gone it's very much the

2233
01:21:19,189 --> 01:21:17,699
case of what's happened with a lot of

2234
01:21:20,330 --> 01:21:19,199
these people leaving the platform as

2235
01:21:23,030 --> 01:21:20,340
well

2236
01:21:25,130 --> 01:21:23,040
um a question from beckier back on the

2237
01:21:26,950 --> 01:21:25,140
subject of the afterlife what does

2238
01:21:29,630 --> 01:21:26,960
Leslie think happens when we die

2239
01:21:32,090 --> 01:21:29,640
reincarnation Heaven or Hell something

2240
01:21:34,810 --> 01:21:32,100
to that effect oh wow that's that's a

2241
01:21:36,530 --> 01:21:34,820
huge question yeah

2242
01:21:41,450 --> 01:21:36,540
I mean

2243
01:21:43,189 --> 01:21:41,460
explored so many different areas of of

2244
01:21:44,990 --> 01:21:43,199
evidence for survival

2245
01:21:47,149 --> 01:21:45,000
and um

2246
01:21:49,550 --> 01:21:47,159
I mean my conclusion really was that it

2247
01:21:51,950 --> 01:21:49,560
does seem that there the Consciousness

2248
01:21:54,350 --> 01:21:51,960
in some form or other does survive at

2249
01:21:57,169 --> 01:21:54,360
least for some time

2250
01:21:59,090 --> 01:21:57,179
uh but you know I have no idea about

2251
01:22:01,010 --> 01:21:59,100
heaven or hell those seem like religious

2252
01:22:03,770 --> 01:22:01,020
Concepts to me and my my research has

2253
01:22:05,030 --> 01:22:03,780
nothing to do with religion uh I just

2254
01:22:07,130 --> 01:22:05,040
you know

2255
01:22:09,229 --> 01:22:07,140
um and reincarnation there's there's

2256
01:22:11,689 --> 01:22:09,239
incredible evidence for re I mean in

2257
01:22:13,370 --> 01:22:11,699
fact to me that's some of the more the

2258
01:22:15,470 --> 01:22:13,380
strongest evidence for survival are

2259
01:22:17,870 --> 01:22:15,480
these cases of young children who

2260
01:22:20,030 --> 01:22:17,880
accurately remember a past life when

2261
01:22:22,250 --> 01:22:20,040
they're just like three years old and

2262
01:22:25,130 --> 01:22:22,260
these the the the details that they

2263
01:22:27,229 --> 01:22:25,140
recall can actually be verified to a

2264
01:22:29,390 --> 01:22:27,239
specific person that you know I mean

2265
01:22:30,890 --> 01:22:29,400
some of those cases are so extraordinary

2266
01:22:33,530 --> 01:22:30,900
that to me they're among the more

2267
01:22:36,350 --> 01:22:33,540
convincing cases of

2268
01:22:39,290 --> 01:22:36,360
of survival now then the question

2269
01:22:41,810 --> 01:22:39,300
becomes is everybody reincarnate and how

2270
01:22:43,910 --> 01:22:41,820
you know I I have no idea I mean I don't

2271
01:22:45,950 --> 01:22:43,920
think anyone really knows

2272
01:22:47,270 --> 01:22:45,960
the bigger questions about how all of

2273
01:22:49,610 --> 01:22:47,280
this works

2274
01:22:51,410 --> 01:22:49,620
and it does sort of get into religious

2275
01:22:52,729 --> 01:22:51,420
Frameworks and people develop their own

2276
01:22:54,229 --> 01:22:52,739
Frameworks for how they're going to

2277
01:22:56,590 --> 01:22:54,239
relate to this but what I was trying to

2278
01:22:59,330 --> 01:22:56,600
do in my book was sort of look at

2279
01:23:02,090 --> 01:22:59,340
research you know evidence that that's

2280
01:23:04,570 --> 01:23:02,100
separate from any kind of religion or

2281
01:23:08,149 --> 01:23:04,580
belief system really

2282
01:23:10,430 --> 01:23:08,159
and it and I think it's there I think

2283
01:23:12,590 --> 01:23:10,440
that there's really solid material that

2284
01:23:14,390 --> 01:23:12,600
suggests that certainly the

2285
01:23:16,729 --> 01:23:14,400
Consciousness functions independently of

2286
01:23:18,470 --> 01:23:16,739
the body I believe that there's pretty

2287
01:23:20,270 --> 01:23:18,480
much proof of that

2288
01:23:22,070 --> 01:23:20,280
and this is of course the living body

2289
01:23:25,189 --> 01:23:22,080
the Consciousness Consciousness

2290
01:23:27,229 --> 01:23:25,199
functions out independently of the brain

2291
01:23:28,970 --> 01:23:27,239
which the materialist world would not

2292
01:23:30,530 --> 01:23:28,980
accept they believe that the brain

2293
01:23:32,270 --> 01:23:30,540
generates Consciousness so when there's

2294
01:23:34,610 --> 01:23:32,280
no brain there's no consciousness but we

2295
01:23:35,990 --> 01:23:34,620
have many many many examples in study

2296
01:23:37,430 --> 01:23:36,000
that shows that studies that show that

2297
01:23:39,950 --> 01:23:37,440
that's not the case

2298
01:23:42,709 --> 01:23:39,960
so what we you know so therefore that

2299
01:23:44,990 --> 01:23:42,719
sort of establishes a strong possibility

2300
01:23:46,669 --> 01:23:45,000
that if if it can function without the

2301
01:23:49,610 --> 01:23:46,679
brain when the person is still living

2302
01:23:51,950 --> 01:23:49,620
and although I mean it functions the

2303
01:23:54,050 --> 01:23:51,960
person dies right and the the

2304
01:23:55,750 --> 01:23:54,060
Consciousness is still happening it's

2305
01:23:57,709 --> 01:23:55,760
still got memories it's still

2306
01:24:00,229 --> 01:23:57,719
experiencing things when there is

2307
01:24:02,270 --> 01:24:00,239
absolutely no brain and the person is

2308
01:24:04,970 --> 01:24:02,280
basically dead temporarily

2309
01:24:07,970 --> 01:24:04,980
the diff the thing is they come back

2310
01:24:10,310 --> 01:24:07,980
so the question is does the same thing

2311
01:24:12,169 --> 01:24:10,320
happen when when the person is dead and

2312
01:24:14,209 --> 01:24:12,179
they don't come back

2313
01:24:16,070 --> 01:24:14,219
you know is this this Consciousness

2314
01:24:17,510 --> 01:24:16,080
exists independently of the brain the

2315
01:24:19,310 --> 01:24:17,520
same way it does in these other

2316
01:24:20,930 --> 01:24:19,320
experiences where they eventually do

2317
01:24:23,209 --> 01:24:20,940
come back even though they are really

2318
01:24:25,250 --> 01:24:23,219
dead for a while so you'd think it

2319
01:24:26,810 --> 01:24:25,260
probably does happen the same way but

2320
01:24:28,250 --> 01:24:26,820
you you can't prove it because the

2321
01:24:30,890 --> 01:24:28,260
person doesn't come back to tell us

2322
01:24:32,870 --> 01:24:30,900
about it right

2323
01:24:34,550 --> 01:24:32,880
um I hope that makes sense so you know

2324
01:24:36,350 --> 01:24:34,560
that's sort of the level at which I'm

2325
01:24:37,970 --> 01:24:36,360
looking at it and it's not about you

2326
01:24:40,610 --> 01:24:37,980
know it's not like I have any particular

2327
01:24:42,649 --> 01:24:40,620
insight into how all of it works or

2328
01:24:44,930 --> 01:24:42,659
whether there's Heaven or Hell or how

2329
01:24:47,990 --> 01:24:44,940
reincarnation works I can just present

2330
01:24:49,910 --> 01:24:48,000
you with case data that illustrate that

2331
01:24:51,709 --> 01:24:49,920
these things actually happen

2332
01:24:54,649 --> 01:24:51,719
and um

2333
01:24:57,169 --> 01:24:54,659
yeah so I hope that the questioner might

2334
01:24:59,149 --> 01:24:57,179
you know look at some of that data and

2335
01:25:01,430 --> 01:24:59,159
then maybe she or he will formulate

2336
01:25:03,229 --> 01:25:01,440
their own framework because I think

2337
01:25:05,930 --> 01:25:03,239
that's ultimately what we have to do and

2338
01:25:08,030 --> 01:25:05,940
like what's evidence to one person may

2339
01:25:10,430 --> 01:25:08,040
not be evidence to another

2340
01:25:12,229 --> 01:25:10,440
and what's really can you know a person

2341
01:25:14,330 --> 01:25:12,239
can be really convinced by something

2342
01:25:16,070 --> 01:25:14,340
that might not convince someone else so

2343
01:25:18,770 --> 01:25:16,080
I think when it comes to the evidence

2344
01:25:21,470 --> 01:25:18,780
for survival of Consciousness it's a

2345
01:25:23,209 --> 01:25:21,480
very personal kind of thing that it

2346
01:25:25,910 --> 01:25:23,219
connects very much with one's own

2347
01:25:28,370 --> 01:25:25,920
personal experience and also what one

2348
01:25:31,490 --> 01:25:28,380
considers to be valid evidence at versus

2349
01:25:34,370 --> 01:25:31,500
not you know yeah it's not as hardcore

2350
01:25:36,229 --> 01:25:34,380
as other areas of Investigation so I

2351
01:25:37,970 --> 01:25:36,239
would just encourage the person who asks

2352
01:25:40,250 --> 01:25:37,980
it with that great question

2353
01:25:41,689 --> 01:25:40,260
to look at some of these you know sort

2354
01:25:43,250 --> 01:25:41,699
of objective

2355
01:25:45,290 --> 01:25:43,260
uh

2356
01:25:47,209 --> 01:25:45,300
studies that really show these things

2357
01:25:49,970 --> 01:25:47,219
really do happen

2358
01:25:51,830 --> 01:25:49,980
and then formulate your your framework

2359
01:25:53,209 --> 01:25:51,840
depending on your own world view you

2360
01:25:54,350 --> 01:25:53,219
know once you've done that I mean I just

2361
01:25:56,390 --> 01:25:54,360
think that's that's the only thing you

2362
01:25:57,950 --> 01:25:56,400
can do but I have no particular wisdom

2363
01:25:59,930 --> 01:25:57,960
in heaven into heaven or hell or

2364
01:26:01,669 --> 01:25:59,940
anything like that well well I've got

2365
01:26:03,350 --> 01:26:01,679
two questions left from listeners and

2366
01:26:04,610 --> 01:26:03,360
one of them follows on from that exact

2367
01:26:06,709 --> 01:26:04,620
question actually

2368
01:26:08,510 --> 01:26:06,719
um Tree of Life says and surviving death

2369
01:26:10,310 --> 01:26:08,520
Leslie describes scenarios where

2370
01:26:12,290 --> 01:26:10,320
children seem to recall past lives which

2371
01:26:13,790 --> 01:26:12,300
you've just mentioned what is Leslie's

2372
01:26:16,310 --> 01:26:13,800
take on the theory that they might

2373
01:26:18,830 --> 01:26:16,320
instead be channeling a spirit so rather

2374
01:26:20,870 --> 01:26:18,840
than reincarnation is more it's like a

2375
01:26:22,790 --> 01:26:20,880
kind of spiritual possession that

2376
01:26:24,410 --> 01:26:22,800
results in the children's experiences of

2377
01:26:26,570 --> 01:26:24,420
a past life

2378
01:26:27,410 --> 01:26:26,580
yeah I mean it's it's absolutely great

2379
01:26:29,510 --> 01:26:27,420
question

2380
01:26:31,490 --> 01:26:29,520
um and I I you know I I think I'm

2381
01:26:33,830 --> 01:26:31,500
relying partly on the work of Ian

2382
01:26:36,410 --> 01:26:33,840
Stevenson and Jim Tucker who at the

2383
01:26:37,790 --> 01:26:36,420
University of Virginia the department of

2384
01:26:39,770 --> 01:26:37,800
perceptual studies the division of

2385
01:26:42,709 --> 01:26:39,780
perceptual studies who have you know

2386
01:26:46,669 --> 01:26:42,719
their MDS they're trained and and Jim

2387
01:26:48,169 --> 01:26:46,679
Tucker is a psychiatrist and so I think

2388
01:26:50,810 --> 01:26:48,179
you know he knows what the

2389
01:26:53,930 --> 01:26:50,820
characteristics of possession look like

2390
01:26:56,570 --> 01:26:53,940
I mean there are cases where a a person

2391
01:26:59,330 --> 01:26:56,580
appears to be possessed by something

2392
01:27:01,189 --> 01:26:59,340
and also um multiple personality

2393
01:27:03,890 --> 01:27:01,199
disorder that kind of thing I mean there

2394
01:27:05,870 --> 01:27:03,900
are ways of evaluating whether that's

2395
01:27:07,310 --> 01:27:05,880
happening to somebody so I think there's

2396
01:27:09,669 --> 01:27:07,320
that level of it

2397
01:27:12,290 --> 01:27:09,679
but when you have a three-year-old

2398
01:27:15,470 --> 01:27:12,300
describing memories

2399
01:27:17,990 --> 01:27:15,480
I mean it doesn't I don't know I mean I

2400
01:27:21,290 --> 01:27:18,000
don't know I just the way it happens is

2401
01:27:23,149 --> 01:27:21,300
it's for one thing it's not continuous

2402
01:27:24,770 --> 01:27:23,159
so when I think of possession I don't

2403
01:27:26,810 --> 01:27:24,780
know it's like there's some Spirit

2404
01:27:29,570 --> 01:27:26,820
entering the body of the child the child

2405
01:27:31,669 --> 01:27:29,580
is always present the child has memories

2406
01:27:33,169 --> 01:27:31,679
and then maybe for months and months and

2407
01:27:35,270 --> 01:27:33,179
months has no memories it's just a

2408
01:27:37,310 --> 01:27:35,280
normal kid you know and then something

2409
01:27:38,810 --> 01:27:37,320
will trigger a memory or they'll have a

2410
01:27:41,810 --> 01:27:38,820
nightmare nightmares are very common

2411
01:27:43,189 --> 01:27:41,820
where they relive the previous death

2412
01:27:45,350 --> 01:27:43,199
so

2413
01:27:47,209 --> 01:27:45,360
um the child very much feels that they

2414
01:27:49,010 --> 01:27:47,219
were that person that's how they

2415
01:27:51,770 --> 01:27:49,020
experience it

2416
01:27:54,050 --> 01:27:51,780
um they were that person now

2417
01:27:56,330 --> 01:27:54,060
but you know there's probably no way to

2418
01:27:57,410 --> 01:27:56,340
absolutely prove that it's not some kind

2419
01:27:59,990 --> 01:27:57,420
of spirit

2420
01:28:02,090 --> 01:28:00,000
that's coming interacting with that

2421
01:28:04,490 --> 01:28:02,100
child and they're absorbing it it could

2422
01:28:06,410 --> 01:28:04,500
be you know

2423
01:28:08,149 --> 01:28:06,420
I don't know if you look at a lot of the

2424
01:28:10,189 --> 01:28:08,159
case reports and read a lot of the case

2425
01:28:11,629 --> 01:28:10,199
studies it just it doesn't leave you

2426
01:28:13,970 --> 01:28:11,639
with that impression that's all I can

2427
01:28:16,550 --> 01:28:13,980
say but I'm not an expert on it and I

2428
01:28:18,050 --> 01:28:16,560
also trust the authorities who do look

2429
01:28:21,850 --> 01:28:18,060
at these cases and have don't really

2430
01:28:25,370 --> 01:28:24,050
and I would probably go along with that

2431
01:28:27,229 --> 01:28:25,380
as well with my with my limited

2432
01:28:29,570 --> 01:28:27,239
knowledge because some of the

2433
01:28:31,370 --> 01:28:29,580
the the cases I've heard of of these

2434
01:28:33,229 --> 01:28:31,380
children recalling past slaves are just

2435
01:28:34,490 --> 01:28:33,239
incredible and we've always said my

2436
01:28:36,950 --> 01:28:34,500
little boys can have been here before

2437
01:28:38,450 --> 01:28:36,960
and the way he goes on and just is six

2438
01:28:40,850 --> 01:28:38,460
years old but a kind of old Spirit

2439
01:28:43,070 --> 01:28:40,860
whereas my little girl and other little

2440
01:28:44,450 --> 01:28:43,080
boy are probably much newer you know not

2441
01:28:47,810 --> 01:28:44,460
quite as bright

2442
01:28:50,390 --> 01:28:47,820
um so and final question from Joe Joe

2443
01:28:52,610 --> 01:28:50,400
asks what has surprised you most about

2444
01:28:55,189 --> 01:28:52,620
the UFO topic that you've learned in the

2445
01:28:57,350 --> 01:28:55,199
last five years that maybe doesn't get

2446
01:29:00,950 --> 01:28:57,360
the coverage or discussion within the

2447
01:29:02,930 --> 01:29:00,960
UFO community that it should

2448
01:29:04,490 --> 01:29:02,940
well because I'm not always aware of

2449
01:29:07,250 --> 01:29:04,500
what's getting discussion in the UFO

2450
01:29:09,890 --> 01:29:07,260
Community because I'm I'm just not

2451
01:29:13,550 --> 01:29:09,900
that involved um

2452
01:29:15,830 --> 01:29:13,560
so uh what is the most what is the he

2453
01:29:18,110 --> 01:29:15,840
said the most unusual the less most the

2454
01:29:19,850 --> 01:29:18,120
most interesting or surprising thing you

2455
01:29:21,169 --> 01:29:19,860
know I think he's looking for maybe a

2456
01:29:23,510 --> 01:29:21,179
little bit of a nugget of you know

2457
01:29:25,970 --> 01:29:23,520
Leslie's Hair discs but it's never

2458
01:29:28,250 --> 01:29:25,980
really came out but I wish I had

2459
01:29:30,350 --> 01:29:28,260
something I could offer um I think you

2460
01:29:33,530 --> 01:29:30,360
know for me personally it's

2461
01:29:36,250 --> 01:29:33,540
I think the getting an expanded

2462
01:29:38,510 --> 01:29:36,260
perception of what the UFO is all about

2463
01:29:39,890 --> 01:29:38,520
like for instance the book that I

2464
01:29:42,290 --> 01:29:39,900
mentioned Skin Walkers at the Pentagon

2465
01:29:44,689 --> 01:29:42,300
which kind of EX you know the these

2466
01:29:47,090 --> 01:29:44,699
bizarre experiences the whole hitchhiker

2467
01:29:49,669 --> 01:29:47,100
effect thing where the paranormal

2468
01:29:51,830 --> 01:29:49,679
aspects are go with a person to another

2469
01:29:53,570 --> 01:29:51,840
location and and the orbs that are

2470
01:29:56,090 --> 01:29:53,580
coming into people's bodies and causing

2471
01:29:59,270 --> 01:29:56,100
medical injuries

2472
01:30:02,209 --> 01:29:59,280
um I think I'm more aware of this as

2473
01:30:03,530 --> 01:30:02,219
being something that I'm that's fearful

2474
01:30:06,709 --> 01:30:03,540
I think

2475
01:30:07,430 --> 01:30:06,719
I'm more aware that this is a power you

2476
01:30:09,770 --> 01:30:07,440
know

2477
01:30:12,590 --> 01:30:09,780
this non-human intelligence is something

2478
01:30:14,030 --> 01:30:12,600
that has complete control over us humans

2479
01:30:17,330 --> 01:30:14,040
that's that's

2480
01:30:19,729 --> 01:30:17,340
and that I understand why they've wanted

2481
01:30:21,590 --> 01:30:19,739
to keep that secret really

2482
01:30:23,270 --> 01:30:21,600
um I I have more of a sense of the

2483
01:30:26,209 --> 01:30:23,280
frightening elements of it I have to say

2484
01:30:29,149 --> 01:30:26,219
than I had before 2017. just from

2485
01:30:30,290 --> 01:30:29,159
talking to people and

2486
01:30:32,450 --> 01:30:30,300
um you know people who've had

2487
01:30:35,270 --> 01:30:32,460
experiences and close encounters and I

2488
01:30:36,890 --> 01:30:35,280
know that listening to Jim semivan and

2489
01:30:40,550 --> 01:30:36,900
what happened to him and his perception

2490
01:30:41,530 --> 01:30:40,560
of this I really relate to that

2491
01:30:45,590 --> 01:30:41,540
um

2492
01:30:48,470 --> 01:30:45,600
so I'm a little more sort of Less in all

2493
01:30:49,669 --> 01:30:48,480
of it and less on a little more fear to

2494
01:30:52,729 --> 01:30:49,679
tell you the truth

2495
01:30:57,470 --> 01:30:55,129
yeah and just an expanded perception of

2496
01:31:00,110 --> 01:30:57,480
how much we really don't know about

2497
01:31:02,209 --> 01:31:00,120
what it is and how it manifests in so

2498
01:31:04,610 --> 01:31:02,219
many different ways like how do we

2499
01:31:05,990 --> 01:31:04,620
explain the variety of manifestations of

2500
01:31:09,470 --> 01:31:06,000
whatever this

2501
01:31:11,990 --> 01:31:09,480
paranormal this this other reality is

2502
01:31:14,570 --> 01:31:12,000
but I think that the element of the

2503
01:31:16,910 --> 01:31:14,580
non-human what whatever this non-human

2504
01:31:18,530 --> 01:31:16,920
thing is that it does have so much power

2505
01:31:21,050 --> 01:31:18,540
and control over us it can do anything

2506
01:31:24,050 --> 01:31:21,060
it wants and we have nothing we can do

2507
01:31:26,750 --> 01:31:24,060
about it and that's really sort of sunk

2508
01:31:27,830 --> 01:31:26,760
in hit me at a new level in more recent

2509
01:31:30,169 --> 01:31:27,840
times

2510
01:31:32,629 --> 01:31:30,179
not that that's something wonderful to

2511
01:31:36,410 --> 01:31:32,639
to share but uh it's I think it's the

2512
01:31:38,629 --> 01:31:36,420
reality of it and um

2513
01:31:40,790 --> 01:31:38,639
it's just you know

2514
01:31:43,189 --> 01:31:40,800
hearing also things like just weird

2515
01:31:44,750 --> 01:31:43,199
illnesses that people get from it you

2516
01:31:48,410 --> 01:31:44,760
know and you don't want to get too close

2517
01:31:50,090 --> 01:31:48,420
to these things and all of that

2518
01:31:52,550 --> 01:31:50,100
um I just wasn't as aware of it before

2519
01:31:54,830 --> 01:31:52,560
but um

2520
01:31:56,570 --> 01:31:54,840
yeah I think uh I don't know what else

2521
01:31:59,629 --> 01:31:56,580
to say I mean I've certainly gotten to

2522
01:32:01,490 --> 01:31:59,639
know more people who I'm speaking to off

2523
01:32:03,070 --> 01:32:01,500
the Record behind the scenes I'm much

2524
01:32:05,570 --> 01:32:03,080
more aware of

2525
01:32:08,149 --> 01:32:05,580
how much

2526
01:32:09,410 --> 01:32:08,159
there is knowledge

2527
01:32:15,770 --> 01:32:09,420
you know

2528
01:32:17,390 --> 01:32:15,780
and people people with clearances within

2529
01:32:19,070 --> 01:32:17,400
the intelligence Community there really

2530
01:32:26,270 --> 01:32:19,080
is

2531
01:32:28,370 --> 01:32:26,280
um I think there are a lot of

2532
01:32:29,990 --> 01:32:28,380
discussions about

2533
01:32:32,629 --> 01:32:30,000
what should be revealed and what

2534
01:32:34,910 --> 01:32:32,639
shouldn't be revealed and I understand

2535
01:32:36,709 --> 01:32:34,920
the hesitancy about revealing certain

2536
01:32:38,689 --> 01:32:36,719
things because

2537
01:32:41,450 --> 01:32:38,699
it's a lot to deal with

2538
01:32:43,790 --> 01:32:41,460
and um

2539
01:32:45,350 --> 01:32:43,800
so I'm you know I do worry about it a

2540
01:32:47,570 --> 01:32:45,360
little bit more I'm also worried about

2541
01:32:49,490 --> 01:32:47,580
the future more I worry about the

2542
01:32:51,350 --> 01:32:49,500
climate change and how that might

2543
01:32:53,270 --> 01:32:51,360
interact with the UFO phenomenon you

2544
01:32:55,610 --> 01:32:53,280
know as the as the Earth starts to

2545
01:32:57,830 --> 01:32:55,620
become less and less inhabitable

2546
01:32:58,970 --> 01:32:57,840
uh how is that all going to play out so

2547
01:33:01,330 --> 01:32:58,980
anyway

2548
01:33:04,610 --> 01:33:01,340
I don't know I'm just rambling

2549
01:33:06,649 --> 01:33:04,620
that's a good answer a ramble to end on

2550
01:33:08,450 --> 01:33:06,659
uh Leslie listen thank you very much for

2551
01:33:09,770 --> 01:33:08,460
your time just before you go

2552
01:33:11,030 --> 01:33:09,780
um is there anything you're working on

2553
01:33:12,470 --> 01:33:11,040
just now that you want to let the

2554
01:33:14,390 --> 01:33:12,480
lesters know of obviously you'll be

2555
01:33:16,189 --> 01:33:14,400
appearing at the the conference on

2556
01:33:18,830 --> 01:33:16,199
December 3rd anything else that you've

2557
01:33:21,290 --> 01:33:18,840
got in the in the paperworks

2558
01:33:22,250 --> 01:33:21,300
well I have just finished working on

2559
01:33:25,010 --> 01:33:22,260
this

2560
01:33:28,669 --> 01:33:25,020
um five part series which was

2561
01:33:30,770 --> 01:33:28,679
um for CNN about UAP so I've got some

2562
01:33:32,450 --> 01:33:30,780
news about that and I'm going to talk

2563
01:33:34,850 --> 01:33:32,460
about that at the conference so that's

2564
01:33:37,669 --> 01:33:34,860
been a really big part of my of my work

2565
01:33:40,669 --> 01:33:37,679
in the last two years I would say

2566
01:33:42,770 --> 01:33:40,679
and um I'm always working on

2567
01:33:44,510 --> 01:33:42,780
trying to find new stories and keeping

2568
01:33:47,810 --> 01:33:44,520
abreast of everything and talking to a

2569
01:33:50,330 --> 01:33:47,820
lot of people and uh a lot goes on

2570
01:33:52,669 --> 01:33:50,340
behind the scenes so it might look like

2571
01:33:54,290 --> 01:33:52,679
I'm not doing much but I am doing a lot

2572
01:33:55,790 --> 01:33:54,300
it just doesn't always get brought

2573
01:33:57,830 --> 01:33:55,800
forward you know

2574
01:34:00,050 --> 01:33:57,840
so um there'll be more in the future

2575
01:34:01,370 --> 01:34:00,060
well like you say you're not on Twitter

2576
01:34:03,229 --> 01:34:01,380
but you're more active on Facebook

2577
01:34:04,910 --> 01:34:03,239
people can follow your Facebook page if

2578
01:34:07,189 --> 01:34:04,920
they're that way inclined at your

2579
01:34:08,930 --> 01:34:07,199
website and all descriptions for your

2580
01:34:10,790 --> 01:34:08,940
books and such will be in the links to

2581
01:34:12,410 --> 01:34:10,800
the show as well Leslie so thank you

2582
01:34:14,330 --> 01:34:12,420
very much for spending so much time with

2583
01:34:15,649 --> 01:34:14,340
me it's been wonderful to speak to you

2584
01:34:17,750 --> 01:34:15,659
and this has been two years in the

2585
01:34:19,430 --> 01:34:17,760
making for me so thanks very much well

2586
01:34:20,570 --> 01:34:19,440
that's great and I'm so glad I could

2587
01:34:22,250 --> 01:34:20,580
come out with you Andy it's been

2588
01:34:24,470 --> 01:34:22,260
delightful to talk to you thank you for

2589
01:34:27,110 --> 01:34:24,480
your your good questions and and all the

2590
01:34:29,330 --> 01:34:27,120
best that is all for this week's show

2591
01:34:31,189 --> 01:34:29,340
thank you very much for listening please

2592
01:34:33,890 --> 01:34:31,199
remember to leave the podcast a review

2593
01:34:36,410 --> 01:34:33,900
on your chosen platform you can like

2594
01:34:38,390 --> 01:34:36,420
retweet And subscribe that would all be

2595
01:34:40,430 --> 01:34:38,400
very much appreciated the shows are

2596
01:34:42,050 --> 01:34:40,440
being uploaded onto YouTube as we speak

2597
01:34:44,510 --> 01:34:42,060
more and more you can sign up at

2598
01:34:46,669 --> 01:34:44,520
patreon.com forward slash that UFO

2599
01:34:48,590 --> 01:34:46,679
podcast the access it shows ad free as

2600
01:34:51,770 --> 01:34:48,600
well please get in touch on Twitter

2601
01:34:55,430 --> 01:34:51,780
Facebook Instagram that UFO podcast of

2602
01:34:57,709 --> 01:34:55,440
course on Twitter it's at UFO UAP am and

2603
01:35:00,400 --> 01:34:57,719
again folks as always keep looking up

2604
01:35:06,590 --> 01:35:00,410
you never know what you might see

2605
01:35:25,250 --> 01:35:06,600
[Music]

2606
01:35:45,169 --> 01:35:27,460
all right because

2607
01:35:45,179 --> 01:36:08,630
myself

2608
01:36:36,250 --> 01:36:15,760
[Music]

2609
01:36:36,260 --> 01:36:45,160
open your mind

2610
01:37:52,090 --> 01:37:00,020
[Music]